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Date: April 29, 2023
Type: YouTube
Source: English
Destinations: en,zh-CN,fr,it,es
Duration: 0:21:20
Processing time: 0:11:04

Elon Musk (Full Interview) | Real Time with Bill Maher (HBO)

Multiple sepakers transcription text:

BILL: My first guest is the man who made electric cars a thing, and is currently working on perfecting reusable rockets, space travel, connecting the human brain directly to computers, connecting cities with electromagnetic bullet trains, the Starlink satellite system that's so important to the war in Ukraine, and then on Tuesday, he's going to work on that tunnel thing on traffic. He also tweets a lot. Elon Musk, right here. Look at you. Wow. Did I get the full order of things that you do in a day there? When I was reading there, I left out the tunnel thing at the end.

ELON: Yeah, I have a lot of jobs.

BILL: Do you work on all these things? Do you do all these things every day? Do you work on all of them in a single day?

ELON: No. But I do have a long work day. Yeah, so I work a lot.

BILL: Well, I'm so thrilled you're here, because we do a show where we talk about what changes happen in the world, but we just talk. There's very few people who actually make change happen. You are one of those people. Probably.

ELON: You know, I just want to say I love this audience.

BILL: Well, you're a likable guy.

ELON: Thanks.

BILL: I mean, they attack you a lot.

ELON: They do.

BILL: And you seem to laugh it off, which I think is fantastic. I love it that you have a sense of humor, because a guy as important as you who makes changes could use your powers for evil and not good. The fact that...

ELON: Yeah, absolutely.

BILL: You could.

ELON: Of course. Yeah, I never used them for evil.

BILL: No, I know. But the way I know that is because you have a sense of humor.

ELON: Yeah.

BILL: You really do.

ELON: I swear I do.

BILL: Yeah, you like laughing. You like to be funny.

ELON: I mean, I kill me.

BILL: Right. Yeah. You know, I... As opposed to somebody like Zuckerberg, who I'm not even sure is a real boy.

ELON: Yeah. I actually love comedy, and I shall, you know, like... Many years ago, I actually was in the audience here and watched your show.

BILL: Oh, really?

ELON: So I've been a long-time admirer of your show.

BILL: Oh, well, thank you. I... I... Let me get back to you being a genius. Okay. So... But that has always been my view, is that... I was a history major, and when you study history, what you realize is that, you know, there's the great man theory, and they talk about kings and princes and queens and presidents. It's really the people in tech who change the world. They're the people who deal the cards, whether it's fire or electricity, for good or bad, or the cotton gin or the iPhone or the atom bomb. Those are the cards, and the rest of us just play it. Would you agree with that assessment?

ELON: I think technology is the thing that causes these big step changes in civilization. So, obviously, you've got things like, say, the Gutenberg Press, before which it was very difficult to get books. They were very rare. Even if you had a thirst for knowledge, you really couldn't do anything about it, because there were very few books to read. So... And the Internet is something beyond the Gutenberg Press, I think. But, you know, it's... When I first saw the Internet coming into being in a way that the general public could use it, it felt like the humanity as a whole was... developing a nervous system. So, previously, the way information would travel would be by osmosis, one person to another, or one person calling another. But... The access to information was very limited. Now, with the Internet, it's like having a nervous system. It's like any part of humanity has access to almost all the information of humanity. Hmm. Like, you could be in the middle of the Amazon jungle, with, say, a Starlink terminal, and have access to more information than the president did in 1980.

BILL: Right. Well, anything on your phone.

ELON: Everything. Yeah.

BILL: Okay. So, you are one of these dealers, these people who deal the cards and send them to you.

ELON: I deal some names, too. Yes, you do. Some, uh... Um...

BILL: So... So... So, I think a lot of people thought, when you bought Twitter, that this is kind of an outlier. Like, how does this... What doesn't fit with these other things you're doing? I never thought that. Because I think you're dealing with big civilizational issues and problems, and I... was right on your page. I think Twitter is one of them. I mean, you have talked about this woke mind virus.

ELON: Yes.

BILL: In really apocalyptic terms. I don't... You should explain why you don't think it's hyperbole to say things like it's pushing civilization towards suicide. First of all, what is the woke mind virus? And if we don't deal with this, nothing else can get done. Tell me why you think that.

ELON: Yeah. So... I think we need to be very cautious about anything that is anti-meritocratic. And anything that is... That results in the suppression of free speech. So, you know, those are two of the aspects of the woke mind virus that I think are very dangerous. Is that it's often anti-meritocratic. You can't question things. Even the questioning is bad. So, you know, another way to... Almost anonymous would be cancel culture. And obviously people have tried to cancel you many times.

BILL: Many times.

ELON: Yeah. I mean...

BILL: Every week.

ELON: Yeah.

BILL: From left and right. I've had it from both sides.

ELON: Yeah.

BILL: And it's interesting. You and I are both, like, in that little group of people. Maybe it's a bigger group now.

ELON: Yeah.

BILL: Who are called conservative, who haven't really changed. I don't think of you as a conservative.

ELON: I definitely... Yeah, like... I at least think of myself as a moderate. You know, so... I mean... At least, like... I've spent a massive amount of my life energy building sustainable energy, you know, electric vehicles, and batteries, and solar and stuff, to help save the environment. That's not a... That's not a... No, no, no. Not exactly far right.

BILL: No, you drew that diagram once, where you're here. I related to that. And, like, the world has changed.

ELON: Right.

BILL: I feel the same way. I feel like very often wokeness is not building on liberalism. It's the opposite of liberalism. I can mention it.

ELON: Yes, exactly.

BILL: Many examples where it's the opposite, including free speech.

ELON: Free speech is actually extremely important. And it's bizarre that we've come to this point where, like, free speech used to be a left or liberal value. And yet we see from, you know, the in-quotes left, a desire to actually censor. And that seems crazy. I mean, I think we should be extremely concerned about anything that undermines the First Amendment. There's a reason for the First Amendment. The First Amendment is because people came from countries where they could not speak freely and where saying certain things would get you thrown into prison. And they were like, well, we don't want that here. And by the way, in many parts of the world, including parts of the world that people might think are relatively similar to the United States, the speech laws are draconian.

BILL: England is quite different.

ELON: I won't name any countries, but...

BILL: England. Why are we protecting them? They have no First Amendment. It's very easy to prove libel in England.

ELON: I love England. But...

BILL: Yeah, me too. But I wouldn't want to say the wrong thing. Yes. You could be sued easier. I mean, there are laws in France. I think if you deny the Holocaust, which I think is abhorrent, but I also think it should be part of free speech, you can be thrown into jail. Okay, so this...

ELON: I really can't emphasize this enough. We must... We must protect free speech. And free speech only matters... It's only relevant when it's someone you don't like saying something you don't like. Because obviously, the speech that you like is...

BILL: Yes.

ELON: You know, it's easy. So it's... And it's... The thing about censorship is that, for those who would advocate it, just remember, at some point, that will return on you.

BILL: So... This... woke mind virus, how did it start? Was it bats? Was it a... Yeah. Escape from a lab? I mean, what is your assessment of... Because it's fairly recent. Why... How did it start and why?

ELON: I was trying to figure out where it's coming from. I think it's actually been a long time brewing, in that it's... I think it's been going on for a while. It... And... The amount of indoctrination that's happening in schools and universities is, I think, far beyond what parents realize. And I only sort of came to realize this somewhat late. The experience that we had in high school and college is not the experience that kids today are having. And hasn't been for, I don't know, 10 years, maybe 20 years. So...

BILL: Are parents themselves also a big part of the problem? They...

ELON: Well, I suppose in some cases that parents... But I think, like, the... Parents are just generally not aware of what their kids are being taught. Or what they're not being taught.

BILL: They're letting the kids think that they're equal.

ELON: I mean... Yeah, let me give you an example that a fair man told me, which, you know, his daughters go to college in... Sorry, go to high school in the Bay Area. And... And he was asking them, like, well, so who are the... You know, who are the first few presidents of the United States? They could name Washington, but... And I said, well, what do you know about him? Well, he was a slave owner. What else? Right. Exactly. Nothing. Right. Like, okay, that's... Maybe you should know more than that. You know? Yeah.

BILL: Yeah. And that is the woke-mind virus. Exactly. Yeah.

ELON: Yeah. Exactly. It's like... You know, the... You know, slavery is obviously a horrific institution, but we should still know more about George Washington than that.

BILL: And by the way, one that was practiced all over the world, forever, since the beginning of time, by every race, including people of color. I'm sorry to tell you that. It's huge in the Bible.

ELON: Absolutely. So...

BILL: Bible loves it. We're... Really!

ELON: Yes. They're quite strict about, like, you know, don't take someone else's slave in that kind of thing.

BILL: Right, but no one ever says, just don't do it.

ELON: They don't. They don't. At no point does it say slavery is bad in the Bible. No. No. No. They do not condemn it at all. They just... So it's...

BILL: But Twitter is not doing bad, right? I mean, I saw today that Tucker Carlson recently fired. You were just on his show and he lost his job, so I hope this isn't an old one. Yeah.

ELON: Yeah. But... Hopefully, yeah.

BILL: What, are you the angel of death?

ELON: Yeah, no, exactly. I'm not the typhoid Mary of talk shows.

BILL: Uh... But his...

ELON: For some reason, people just get fired after that.

BILL: But his rant yesterday or today on Twitter...

ELON: I think it was yesterday or something. Or a couple days ago.

BILL: It did more than every cable news monologue. Or something like that. Is that right?

ELON: Well, Twitter has a tremendous audience. So there's 250 million people that spend an average of half an hour a day on Twitter. So it's about 120 to 130 million user hours per day, and it's been increasing. So... Um... We didn't do anything. To be clear, we did nothing special whatsoever. I learned about it afterwards that he had posted something on Twitter. So it's just that Twitter has a lot of people's attention. Uh, so... And it tends to be the people that are, uh... That read a lot or are interested in current events, um, and, um... Generally are pretty influential. So...

BILL: But most of the people who tweet are the same people, right? I mean, the people who actually tweet are supposed to just reading it. I feel like that's... I've read this many times. It's a very small percentage of the people on Twitter, and it seems like... See, here's why I don't tweet anymore, because you may be the mayor of Tweet Town now.

ELON: Yeah. Mayor of Tweet Town. We're getting a cap with that.

BILL: And I'm glad... And I like it that the mayor likes my jokes. But the reason I don't do it anymore is because the mob of mean girls is still there. And that has not changed. Like, it's too easy to get canceled. And I don't even know what pisses them off. They're so nuts, these kids. I feel like I'm walking on a roof with a blindfold. I could fall off any time. That was the most innocuous thing, but it's like, you know, I said George Washington was a great president. Well, how dare you.

ELON: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I had some flaws, but...

BILL: So how do you fix that, Mr. Mayor?

ELON: ...instrumental in the creation of the United States, so... Well, you have to say, like, what does canceled mean? You know, I mean, yes, people attack you on Twitter, that's one thing, but frankly, that's just gonna increase engagement. So I would just ignore it.

BILL: Well, that's easy for you, because they can't take your job away. Or any of your main ten jobs, but they could take mine, and they did once, by the way.

ELON: Yeah. Okay, well, fair.

BILL: You know, I was, like, literally canceled.

ELON: Literally canceled?

BILL: Yeah, I mean, like, the show is canceled. It's like... Okay, so you were in Congress, at Congress the other day, talking with Chuck Schumer about AI. I'm very interested in this, because you've been on this for years. I've always thought you were right about this. I think you're right about almost everything. I mean, let's have more babies and raise them on Mars. I don't get that, but okay. Well, I just think we should be cautious about civilizational decline with... And we have plummeting birth rates most places, yeah.

BILL: Right. And also plummeting resources.

ELON: No, no, resources will be fine.

BILL: But they're not fine... They're not fine now.

ELON: Look, I'm not suggesting complacency. We do want to move to a sustainable energy economy as quickly as possible, but we're not in any danger of resource collapse.

BILL: But lots of people don't have enough food or water. Water. We will run out of water. They're running out of sand.

ELON: No, Earth is 70 % water by surface area. But you can't drink that. Desalination is absurdly cheap.

BILL: Why don't we do it, then?

ELON: We do...

BILL: It is done. You have a lot of free time.

ELON: It is done. There is a lot of desalination done. There's plenty of water. This is not an issue. I want to be clear.

BILL: All right. So, but let's talk about AI, because, like, you were on this tip 10 years ago when nobody else was. And I always thought, he's right. Why? Because I've seen too many movies. Everything that happens in movies, that happens in real life. And, you know, if you make things that are way smarter than you, why wouldn't they become your overlords? So what did you say to Chuck Schumer, and what are we doing about this? I know you want to pause in AI, because just in the last six months with ChatGPT, which came from a company you started...

ELON: Yes. Well, I mean, a friend of mine has a sort of modification of Occam's razor, you know, instead of the simplest thing being the most likely, like, the most ironic outcome is the most likely.

BILL: Right. Yes.

ELON: So with respect to AI, I just think we should be... We should have some sort of regulatory oversight. So, you know, for anything that is a danger to the public, if it's sort of aircraft, cars, food and drugs, we've got some regulatory oversight, like a referee, essentially, and making sure that companies don't cut corners. So I think that since... If one agrees that AI is a potential risk to the public, then there should be some regulatory body that oversees what companies are doing, so that they don't cut corners and potentially be something really dangerous.

BILL: And if we don't do something... Lay out a scenario for me in the next two, five, ten years, if nothing is done, because we're very good at doing nothing, especially when it comes in the way of profit, and this is a big profit engine now for companies, they're going to want to just compete with each other. I mean, there are people like Ray Kurzweil, who doesn't think it's a problem at all.

ELON: Actually, Ray Kurzweil's prediction for artificial superintelligence is 2029. He's not far on.

BILL: Right. But he doesn't think it's a problem, whereas people like you and Bill Gates, and Stephen Hawking think it's a problem.

ELON: Yeah, it depends. If some people want to live forever, or for a much longer period of time, and they see AI as the only way to... Digital superintelligence is the only thing that can figure out how to get them to live forever. I think Kurzweil is in that category. So he would prefer to have AI, artificial general intelligence, than not, because it can figure out longevity.

BILL: So are you optimistic? I read in your Rolling Stone article back in the day that you said you can never be happy unless you're in love.

ELON: Well, you can be half happy, I suppose. I mean, there's two things. I think to be most happy, if you're happy in love and you love your work, then you'll be, I think, fully happy if you have one of those two things, you'll be half happy, you know, roughly.

BILL: I feel like the theme in a lot of your works that connect all these different things is connecting. Like, you want to connect things. You know, you want to connect on the Hyperloop, and you want to connect this to Mars, and even Twitter.

ELON: Like Connect 4.

BILL: You want...

ELON: I love that game.

BILL: What?

ELON: Connect 4, you know, when you get the... Sorry, this is a comedy, you know? Gotta throw some comedy in there.

BILL: It's hard for you, because when you bought Twitter, you're kind of doing what you did when you took over... when you started Tesla. You lived at the factory, right? I feel like that's your... that's your... your pattern. You get into this thing, and then you got to live at the factory to make it work. You've been back in... You moved to Texas, then you went back up to San Francisco because of Twitter.

ELON: I was living in the library of Twitter for a while, yes. But I think things are reasonably stabilized right now. It was just on the fast track to bankruptcy after the acquisition, so I had to take drastic action if there wasn't any choice.

BILL: I'm just saying it's hard for a woman. To, like, when the guy lives at the factory.

ELON: Yes.

BILL: That can be a stumbling block.

ELON: But overall, with, you know, my concern with Twitter was to... it is somewhat of the digital town square, and it's important that there be both the reality and perception of trust for a wide range of viewpoints. And there was a lot of censorship going on, and we sort of uncovered a lot of that with the Twitter files, including a lot of government-driven censorship, which... you know... It's... I mean, it seems that that's got to be a constitutional violation, what was going on there. So, and I can... since I'm, like, an avid Twitter user, I can detect that, like, something's not right here. And so that's really why I did the acquisition. It wasn't because I thought this was an easy way to make money or something like that. This is... being mayor of Twitter town, Tweet town, or whatever, is definitely like there's a lot of arrows pointed at you, like, flying at you.

BILL: Yes, of course. But you seem to handle that okay. I hope you do. Because, look, I mean, geniuses are going to be a little quirky sometimes, but your heart is always in the right place. You were trying to fix this world, and, look, I could talk to you forever. We can't today. I'd love to get high with you. I know a great place to do it. But I can't tell you how much I appreciate you. I know you have a lot of choices and places you can go. Thank you, Elon Musk, ladies and gentlemen. All right, I'll see you soon, Elon. Thank you.

Transcription subtitles:

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My first guest is the man who made electric cars a thing,

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and is currently working on perfecting reusable rockets,

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space travel, connecting the human brain directly to computers,

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connecting cities with electromagnetic bullet trains,

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the Starlink satellite system that's so important to the war in Ukraine,

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and then on Tuesday,

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he's going to work on that tunnel thing on traffic.

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He also tweets a lot.

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Elon Musk, right here.

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Look at you.

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Wow.

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Did I get the full order of things that you do in a day there?

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When I was reading there,

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I left out the tunnel thing at the end.

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Do you work on all these things?

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Yeah, I have a lot of jobs.

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Do you do all these things every day?

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Do you work on all of them in a single day?

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No.

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But I do have a long work day.

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Yeah,

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so I work a lot.

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Well, I'm so thrilled you're here,

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because we do a show where we talk about what changes happen in the world,

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but we just talk.

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There's very few people who actually make change happen.

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You are one of those people.

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Probably.

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You know,

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I just want to say I love this audience.

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Well, you're a likable guy.

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Thanks. I mean,

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they attack you a lot.

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They do.

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And you seem to laugh it off,

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which I think is fantastic.

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I love it that you have a sense of humor,

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because a guy as important as you who makes

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changes could use your powers for evil and not good.

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The fact that...

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Yeah, absolutely.

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You could.

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Of course.

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Yeah, I never used them for evil.

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No, I know.

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But the way I know that is because you have a sense of humor.

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Yeah.

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You really do.

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I swear I do.

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Yeah, you like laughing.

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You like to be funny.

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I mean, I kill me.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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You know,

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I...

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As opposed to somebody like Zuckerberg,

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who I'm not even sure is a real boy.

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Yeah.

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I actually love comedy,

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and I shall, you know, like...

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Many years ago, I actually was in the audience here

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and watched your show.

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Oh, really?

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So I've been a long-time admirer of your show.

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Oh, well,

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thank you.

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I...

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I...

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Let me get back to you being a genius.

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Okay.

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So...

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But that has always been my view,

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is that...

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I was a history major,

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and when you study history,

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what you realize is that,

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you know, there's the great man theory,

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and they talk about kings

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and princes and queens and presidents.

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It's really the people in tech who change the world.

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They're the people who deal the cards,

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whether it's fire or electricity,

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for good or bad,

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or the cotton gin or the iPhone

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or the atom bomb.

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Those are the cards,

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and the rest of us just play it.

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Would you agree with that assessment?

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I think technology is the thing that causes these big step changes in civilization.

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So, obviously, you've got things like,

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say, the Gutenberg Press,

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before which it was very difficult to get books.

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They were very rare.

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Even if you had a thirst for knowledge,

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you really couldn't do anything about it,

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because there were very few books to read.

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So...

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And the Internet is something

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beyond the Gutenberg Press, I think.

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But, you know, it's...

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When I first saw the Internet coming into being

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in a way that the general public could use it,

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it felt like the humanity as a whole was...

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developing a nervous system.

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So, previously, the way information would travel

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would be by osmosis,

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one person to another,

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or one person calling another.

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But...

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The access to information was very limited.

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Now, with the Internet,

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it's like having a nervous system.

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It's like any part of humanity has access

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to almost all the information of humanity.

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Hmm. Like, you could be in the middle of the Amazon jungle,

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with, say, a Starlink terminal, and have access to more information

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than the president did in 1980. Right.

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Well, anything on your phone.

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Everything.

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Is...

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Yeah.

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Okay.

123
00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,040
So, you are one of these dealers,

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these people who deal the cards and send them to you.

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I deal some names,

126
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too. Yes, you do.

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Some,

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uh... Um...

129
00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:46,600
So...

130
00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,540
So...

131
00:04:50,540 --> 00:04:51,820
So, I think a lot of people thought,

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when you bought Twitter,

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that this is kind of an outlandish way of doing things. When you bought Twitter,

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that this is kind of an outlier.

135
00:04:54,740 --> 00:04:55,300
Like, how does this...

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00:04:55,300 --> 00:04:57,880
What doesn't fit with these other things you're doing?

137
00:04:57,940 --> 00:04:59,260
I never thought that.

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Because I think you're dealing with big civilizational issues

139
00:05:02,900 --> 00:05:04,860
and problems, and I...

140
00:05:04,860 --> 00:05:05,860
was right on your page.

141
00:05:06,060 --> 00:05:07,360
I think Twitter is one of them.

142
00:05:07,540 --> 00:05:10,540
I mean, you have talked about this woke mind virus.

143
00:05:10,540 --> 00:05:10,880
Yes.

144
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In really apocalyptic terms.

145
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I don't...

146
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You should explain why you don't think it's hyperbole

147
00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:20,160
to say things like it's pushing civilization towards suicide.

148
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First of all, what is the woke mind virus?

149
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And if we don't deal with this,

150
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nothing else can get done.

151
00:05:25,700 --> 00:05:27,180
Tell me why you think that.

152
00:05:28,140 --> 00:05:28,360
Yeah.

153
00:05:29,020 --> 00:05:30,500
So...

154
00:05:30,500 --> 00:05:34,800
I think we need to be very cautious about anything that is anti-meritocratic.

155
00:05:35,740 --> 00:05:38,880
And anything that is...

156
00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,560
That results in the suppression of free speech.

157
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So,

158
00:05:43,780 --> 00:05:46,140
you know, those are two of the aspects of the woke mind virus that I think are very dangerous.

159
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Is that it's often anti-meritocratic.

160
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You can't question things.

161
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Even the questioning is bad.

162
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So, you know,

163
00:05:57,740 --> 00:06:00,220
another way to...

164
00:06:00,220 --> 00:06:02,400
Almost anonymous would be cancel culture.

165
00:06:02,580 --> 00:06:04,320
And obviously people have tried to cancel you many times.

166
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Many times.

167
00:06:05,060 --> 00:06:05,300
Yeah.

168
00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:05,780
I mean...

169
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Every week.

170
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Yeah.

171
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From left and right.

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I've had it from both sides.

173
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Yeah.

174
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And it's interesting.

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You and I are both,

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like, in that little group of people. Maybe it's a bigger group now.

177
00:06:17,060 --> 00:06:19,000
Yeah. Who are called conservative,

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who haven't really changed.

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I don't think of you as a conservative.

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I definitely...

181
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Yeah, like...

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I at least think of myself as a moderate.

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You know, so...

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I mean...

185
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At least, like...

186
00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,640
I've spent a massive amount of my life energy

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building sustainable energy, you know, electric vehicles,

188
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and batteries, and solar and stuff,

189
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to help save the environment.

190
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That's not a... That's not a...

191
00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:44,360
No, no,

192
00:06:44,780 --> 00:06:45,040
no.

193
00:06:48,740 --> 00:06:49,920
Not exactly far right.

194
00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,460
No, you drew that diagram once,

195
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where you're here.

196
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I related to that.

197
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And, like, the world has changed.

198
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Right.

199
00:06:57,620 --> 00:06:58,660
I feel the same way.

200
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I feel like very often wokeness is not building on liberalism.

201
00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:03,760
It's the opposite of liberalism.

202
00:07:03,900 --> 00:07:04,220
I can mention it.

203
00:07:04,220 --> 00:07:04,960
Yes, exactly.

204
00:07:05,060 --> 00:07:06,640
Many examples where it's the opposite,

205
00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:07,820
including free speech.

206
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Free speech is actually extremely important.

207
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And it's bizarre that we've come to this point where,

208
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like, free speech used to be a left or liberal value.

209
00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,800
And yet we see from,

210
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you know, the in-quotes left,

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a desire to actually censor.

212
00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,200
And that seems crazy.

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00:07:29,300 --> 00:07:36,920
I mean, I think we should be extremely concerned about anything that undermines the First Amendment.

214
00:07:37,060 --> 00:07:38,340
There's a reason for the First Amendment.

215
00:07:38,340 --> 00:07:41,720
The First Amendment is because people came from countries

216
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where they could not speak freely

217
00:07:43,540 --> 00:07:47,800
and where saying certain things would get you thrown into prison.

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00:07:48,460 --> 00:07:48,940
And they were like,

219
00:07:48,980 --> 00:07:50,060
well, we don't want that here.

220
00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:51,320
And by the way,

221
00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:52,760
in many parts of the world,

222
00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,760
including parts of the world that people might think are relatively similar to the United States,

223
00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:00,540
the speech laws are draconian.

224
00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:02,340
England is quite different.

225
00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:06,120
I won't name any countries, but...

226
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England.

227
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Why are we protecting them?

228
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They have no First Amendment.

229
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It's very easy to prove libel in England.

230
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Whereas here it's almost...

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I love England.

232
00:08:14,780 --> 00:08:14,840
But...

233
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Yeah, you too.

234
00:08:15,780 --> 00:08:17,960
But I wouldn't want to say the wrong thing.

235
00:08:18,620 --> 00:08:19,080
Yes.

236
00:08:19,460 --> 00:08:20,720
You could be sued easier.

237
00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:22,880
I mean, there are laws in France.

238
00:08:23,020 --> 00:08:24,420
I think if you deny the Holocaust,

239
00:08:24,420 --> 00:08:26,460
which I think is abhorrent,

240
00:08:26,540 --> 00:08:28,600
but I also think it should be part of free speech,

241
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you can be thrown into jail.

242
00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:31,380
Okay,

243
00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:32,380
so this...

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00:08:32,380 --> 00:08:34,420
I really can't emphasize this enough.

245
00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:36,280
We must...

246
00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:38,140
We must protect free speech.

247
00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:40,180
And free speech only matters...

248
00:08:40,180 --> 00:08:42,520
It's only relevant when it's someone you don't like

249
00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:44,000
saying something you don't like.

250
00:08:44,860 --> 00:08:47,160
Because obviously, the speech that you like is...

251
00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:47,500
Yes.

252
00:08:47,500 --> 00:08:48,120
You know, it's easy.

253
00:08:48,780 --> 00:08:50,680
So it's...

254
00:08:50,680 --> 00:08:51,800
And it's...

255
00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:52,660
The thing about censorship is that,

256
00:08:52,660 --> 00:08:55,200
for those who would advocate it,

257
00:08:55,740 --> 00:08:58,260
just remember, at some point, that will return on you.

258
00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:03,780
APPLAUSE So...

259
00:09:03,780 --> 00:09:05,760
This...

260
00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:09,060
woke mind virus, how did it start?

261
00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:09,960
Was it bats?

262
00:09:10,100 --> 00:09:11,040
Was it a...

263
00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:11,380
Yeah.

264
00:09:11,380 --> 00:09:12,680
Escape from a lab?

265
00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,120
I mean, what is your assessment of...

266
00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:16,540
Because it's fairly recent.

267
00:09:17,340 --> 00:09:18,160
Why...

268
00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:19,140
How did it start and why?

269
00:09:19,140 --> 00:09:24,160
I was trying to figure out where it's coming from.

270
00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:25,820
I think it's actually been a long time brewing,

271
00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:28,440
in that it's...

272
00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:31,040
I think it's been going on for a while.

273
00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:33,760
It...

274
00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:35,760
And...

275
00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:40,840
The amount of indoctrination that's happening in schools and universities is,

276
00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:42,520
I think, far beyond what parents realize.

277
00:09:44,140 --> 00:09:46,120
And I only sort of came to realize this somewhat late.

278
00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:55,120
The experience that we had in high school and college is not the experience that kids today are having.

279
00:09:56,140 --> 00:09:58,260
And hasn't been for, I don't know,

280
00:09:58,980 --> 00:10:00,520
10 years, maybe 20 years.

281
00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:02,640
So...

282
00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,360
Are parents themselves also a big part of the problem?

283
00:10:06,100 --> 00:10:06,500
They...

284
00:10:06,500 --> 00:10:06,820
Well,

285
00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:09,900
I suppose in some cases that parents...

286
00:10:09,900 --> 00:10:10,640
But I think, like,

287
00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:11,920
the...

288
00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,620
Parents are just generally not aware of what their kids are being taught.

289
00:10:14,860 --> 00:10:15,100
Or what they're not being taught.

290
00:10:15,100 --> 00:10:19,680
They're letting the kids think that they're equal.

291
00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:21,180
I mean...

292
00:10:21,180 --> 00:10:24,340
Yeah, let me give you an example that a fair man told me,

293
00:10:24,740 --> 00:10:27,820
which, you know, his daughters go to college in...

294
00:10:27,820 --> 00:10:29,720
Sorry, go to high school in the Bay Area.

295
00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:31,820
And...

296
00:10:31,820 --> 00:10:33,180
And he was asking them,

297
00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:36,080
like, well, so who are the...

298
00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,380
You know, who are the first few presidents of the United States?

299
00:10:38,900 --> 00:10:40,360
They could name Washington,

300
00:10:40,660 --> 00:10:41,180
but...

301
00:10:41,180 --> 00:10:42,020
And I said, well, what do you know about him?

302
00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:42,920
Well, he was a slave owner.

303
00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:43,580
What else?

304
00:10:43,580 --> 00:10:45,200
Right. Exactly. Nothing.

305
00:10:46,340 --> 00:10:46,540
Right.

306
00:10:46,580 --> 00:10:47,960
Like, okay, that's...

307
00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:49,720
Maybe you should know more than that.

308
00:10:50,180 --> 00:10:50,500
You know?

309
00:10:50,820 --> 00:10:51,120
Yeah.

310
00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:51,700
Yeah.

311
00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,180
And that is the Waltz-Mind virus.

312
00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:55,460
Exactly. Yeah.

313
00:10:55,980 --> 00:10:56,080
Yeah.

314
00:10:57,180 --> 00:10:57,880
Exactly.

315
00:10:58,160 --> 00:10:59,600
It's like...

316
00:10:59,600 --> 00:10:59,740
You know,

317
00:11:00,900 --> 00:11:01,940
the...

318
00:11:01,940 --> 00:11:05,160
You know, slavery is obviously a horrific institution,

319
00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,720
but we should still know more about George Washington than that.

320
00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:09,320
And by the way,

321
00:11:09,340 --> 00:11:11,100
one that was practiced all over the world,

322
00:11:11,380 --> 00:11:14,020
forever, since the beginning of time, by every race,

323
00:11:14,540 --> 00:11:15,380
including people of color.

324
00:11:15,540 --> 00:11:16,440
I'm sorry to tell you that.

325
00:11:16,680 --> 00:11:17,800
It's huge in the Bible.

326
00:11:18,260 --> 00:11:18,540
Absolutely.

327
00:11:19,020 --> 00:11:19,220
So...

328
00:11:19,220 --> 00:11:19,800
Bible loves it.

329
00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:20,840
We're...

330
00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:21,940
I...

331
00:11:21,940 --> 00:11:22,340
Really?

332
00:11:22,340 --> 00:11:22,660
Yes.

333
00:11:22,820 --> 00:11:24,500
They're quite strict about,

334
00:11:24,780 --> 00:11:26,780
like, you know, don't take someone else's slave in that kind of thing.

335
00:11:26,780 --> 00:11:28,040
Right, but no one ever says,

336
00:11:28,380 --> 00:11:29,020
just don't do it.

337
00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:29,680
They don't.

338
00:11:29,700 --> 00:11:30,500
They don't.

339
00:11:30,680 --> 00:11:32,900
At no point does it say slavery is bad in the Bible.

340
00:11:33,300 --> 00:11:33,620
No. No.

341
00:11:34,020 --> 00:11:35,700
No. They do not condemn it at all.

342
00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:37,080
They just...

343
00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:37,220
So...

344
00:11:37,220 --> 00:11:38,240
So it's...

345
00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:39,800
But Twitter is not doing bad,

346
00:11:39,940 --> 00:11:40,040
right?

347
00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:44,620
I mean, I saw today that Tucker Carlson recently fired.

348
00:11:44,680 --> 00:11:46,460
You were just on his show and he lost his job,

349
00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:47,600
so I hope this isn't an old one.

350
00:11:48,560 --> 00:11:49,880
Yeah. Yeah. But...

351
00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:50,800
Hopefully, yeah.

352
00:11:50,940 --> 00:11:52,440
What, are you the angel of death?

353
00:11:52,700 --> 00:11:53,480
Yeah, no, exactly.

354
00:11:53,980 --> 00:11:56,280
I'm not the typhoid Mary of talk shows.

355
00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:57,980
Uh...

356
00:11:57,980 --> 00:11:58,300
But his...

357
00:11:58,300 --> 00:12:00,220
For some reason, people just get fired after that.

358
00:12:00,220 --> 00:12:04,280
But his rant yesterday or today on Twitter...

359
00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:05,300
I think it was yesterday or something.

360
00:12:05,620 --> 00:12:05,840
Or a couple days ago.

361
00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:09,580
It did more than every cable news monologue.

362
00:12:09,580 --> 00:12:09,980
Yeah.

363
00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:10,680
Or something like that.

364
00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:11,340
Is that right?

365
00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:12,100
Well,

366
00:12:12,420 --> 00:12:13,400
Twitter has a tremendous audience.

367
00:12:13,500 --> 00:12:17,380
So there's 250 million people that spend an average of half an hour a day on Twitter.

368
00:12:17,420 --> 00:12:20,500
So it's about 120 to 130 million user hours per day,

369
00:12:20,500 --> 00:12:21,300
and it's been increasing.

370
00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:24,580
So... Um...

371
00:12:24,580 --> 00:12:25,760
We didn't do anything.

372
00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:27,860
To be clear, we did nothing special whatsoever.

373
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,100
I learned about it afterwards that he had posted something on Twitter.

374
00:12:32,020 --> 00:12:35,240
Mm. So it's just that Twitter has a lot of people's attention.

375
00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:35,740
Uh,

376
00:12:36,100 --> 00:12:36,440
so...

377
00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:38,760
And it tends to be the people that are,

378
00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:39,700
uh...

379
00:12:39,700 --> 00:12:42,540
That read a lot or are interested in current events,

380
00:12:42,580 --> 00:12:44,840
um, and, um...

381
00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:46,160
Generally are pretty influential.

382
00:12:46,740 --> 00:12:47,220
So...

383
00:12:47,220 --> 00:12:49,580
But most of the people who tweet are the same people,

384
00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:49,800
right?

385
00:12:49,820 --> 00:12:51,600
I mean, the people who actually tweet

386
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:52,800
are supposed to just reading it.

387
00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:53,220
Yeah.

388
00:12:53,460 --> 00:12:54,500
I feel like that's...

389
00:12:54,500 --> 00:12:55,540
I've read this many times.

390
00:12:55,700 --> 00:12:58,880
It's a very small percentage of the people on Twitter,

391
00:12:58,980 --> 00:12:59,840
and it seems like...

392
00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:00,140
Yeah.

393
00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:02,040
See, here's why I don't tweet anymore,

394
00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:03,780
because you may be the mayor of Tweet Town now.

395
00:13:03,780 --> 00:13:04,700
Yeah.

396
00:13:04,940 --> 00:13:05,700
Mayor of Tweet Town.

397
00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:07,180
We're getting a cap with that.

398
00:13:07,180 --> 00:13:08,380
And I'm glad...

399
00:13:08,380 --> 00:13:10,900
And I like it that the mayor likes my jokes.

400
00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:12,860
But the reason I don't do it anymore

401
00:13:12,860 --> 00:13:16,640
is because the mob of mean girls is still there.

402
00:13:17,020 --> 00:13:18,800
And that has not changed.

403
00:13:18,860 --> 00:13:21,800
Like, it's too easy to get canceled.

404
00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:25,680
And I don't even know what pisses them off.

405
00:13:25,740 --> 00:13:27,140
They're so nuts, these kids.

406
00:13:27,580 --> 00:13:30,080
I feel like I'm walking on a roof with a blindfold.

407
00:13:30,300 --> 00:13:31,580
I could fall off any time.

408
00:13:31,580 --> 00:13:34,020
That was the most innocuous thing,

409
00:13:34,060 --> 00:13:37,080
but it's like, you know, I said George Washington was a great president.

410
00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:38,520
Well, how dare you.

411
00:13:38,780 --> 00:13:39,040
Yeah.

412
00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:39,860
Yeah, exactly.

413
00:13:39,900 --> 00:13:40,320
I had some flaws,

414
00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:41,460
but...

415
00:13:41,460 --> 00:13:42,500
So how do you fix that,

416
00:13:42,500 --> 00:13:46,260
Mr. Mayor? ...instrumental in the creation of the United States, so...

417
00:13:46,260 --> 00:13:47,440
Yeah. Well,

418
00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:48,380
you have to say,

419
00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:49,680
like, what does canceled mean?

420
00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,260
You know, I mean, yes, people attack you on Twitter,

421
00:13:52,260 --> 00:13:54,840
that's one thing, but frankly, that's just gonna increase engagement.

422
00:13:55,460 --> 00:13:56,980
So I would just ignore it.

423
00:13:57,520 --> 00:13:58,960
Well, that's easy for you,

424
00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:00,560
because they can't take your job away.

425
00:14:00,560 --> 00:14:03,580
Or any of your main ten jobs,

426
00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:04,820
but they could take mine,

427
00:14:04,820 --> 00:14:05,600
and they did once,

428
00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:06,200
by the way.

429
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:06,820
Yeah.

430
00:14:07,020 --> 00:14:07,480
Okay, well, fair.

431
00:14:07,580 --> 00:14:09,400
You know, I was, like, literally canceled.

432
00:14:09,900 --> 00:14:10,280
Literally canceled?

433
00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:12,600
Yeah, I mean, like, the show is canceled.

434
00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:13,980
It's like...

435
00:14:13,980 --> 00:14:15,680
Okay, so you were in Congress,

436
00:14:16,140 --> 00:14:17,200
at Congress the other day,

437
00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:18,980
talking with Chuck Schumer about AI.

438
00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:20,180
I'm very interested in this,

439
00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:21,780
because you've been on this for years.

440
00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:23,940
I've always thought you were right about this.

441
00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:25,700
I think you're right about almost everything.

442
00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:28,300
I mean, let's have more babies and raise them on Mars.

443
00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:29,100
I don't get that, but okay.

444
00:14:29,100 --> 00:14:29,860
Well,

445
00:14:30,900 --> 00:14:32,860
I just think we should be cautious

446
00:14:32,860 --> 00:14:35,200
about civilizational decline with...

447
00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:38,260
And we have plummeting birth rates most places,

448
00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:38,520
yeah.

449
00:14:38,740 --> 00:14:39,100
Right.

450
00:14:39,220 --> 00:14:41,300
And also plummeting resources.

451
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:43,300
No, no, resources will be fine.

452
00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:44,940
But they're not fine...

453
00:14:44,940 --> 00:14:45,940
They're not fine now.

454
00:14:46,820 --> 00:14:48,580
Look, I'm not suggesting complacency.

455
00:14:49,380 --> 00:14:51,520
We do want to move to a sustainable energy economy

456
00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:52,580
as quickly as possible,

457
00:14:52,820 --> 00:14:56,380
but we're not in any danger of resource collapse.

458
00:14:56,940 --> 00:14:58,440
But lots of people don't have enough food or water.

459
00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:00,540
Water.

460
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:02,460
We will run out of water.

461
00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:04,260
They're running out of sand.

462
00:15:04,700 --> 00:15:04,740
Sand.

463
00:15:04,740 --> 00:15:07,640
No, Earth is 70% water by surface area.

464
00:15:08,140 --> 00:15:09,400
But you can't drink that.

465
00:15:10,420 --> 00:15:12,080
Desalination is absurdly cheap.

466
00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:13,760
Why don't we do it, then?

467
00:15:14,380 --> 00:15:14,900
We do...

468
00:15:14,900 --> 00:15:15,280
It is done.

469
00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:16,280
You have a lot of free time.

470
00:15:16,500 --> 00:15:16,960
It is done.

471
00:15:17,260 --> 00:15:19,320
There is a lot of desalination done.

472
00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:20,080
Okay, but...

473
00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:20,740
There's plenty of water.

474
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:21,420
This is not an issue.

475
00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:21,980
I want to be clear.

476
00:15:22,100 --> 00:15:22,540
All right.

477
00:15:22,580 --> 00:15:24,240
So, but let's talk about AI, because,

478
00:15:24,580 --> 00:15:25,420
like, you were on this tip 10 years ago when nobody else was.

479
00:15:25,420 --> 00:15:28,320
And I always thought,

480
00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:28,980
he's right.

481
00:15:29,140 --> 00:15:29,400
Why?

482
00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:30,860
Because I've seen too many movies.

483
00:15:31,260 --> 00:15:32,340
Everything that happens in movies,

484
00:15:32,340 --> 00:15:33,600
that happens in real life.

485
00:15:34,300 --> 00:15:36,660
And, you know, if you make things

486
00:15:36,660 --> 00:15:38,080
that are way smarter than you,

487
00:15:38,580 --> 00:15:40,280
why wouldn't they become your overlords?

488
00:15:40,620 --> 00:15:42,280
So what did you say to Chuck Schumer,

489
00:15:42,340 --> 00:15:43,340
and what are we doing about this?

490
00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,200
I know you want to pause in AI,

491
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,240
because just in the last six months with ChatGPT,

492
00:15:48,540 --> 00:15:49,920
which came from a company you started...

493
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:55,120
Yes. Well,

494
00:15:55,620 --> 00:15:58,640
I mean, a friend of mine has a sort of modification of Occam's razor.

495
00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:01,620
You know, instead of the simplest thing being the most likely,

496
00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,020
like, the most ironic outcome is the most likely.

497
00:16:05,700 --> 00:16:06,040
Right.

498
00:16:06,380 --> 00:16:06,760
Yes.

499
00:16:07,460 --> 00:16:09,880
So with respect to AI,

500
00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:10,900
I just think we should be...

501
00:16:10,900 --> 00:16:24,500
We should have some sort of regulatory oversight. So, you know, for anything that is a danger to the public, if it's sort of aircraft, or something like that, we've got some regulatory oversight, like a referee,

502
00:16:25,100 --> 00:16:27,840
essentially, and making sure that companies don't cut corners.

503
00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,520
So I think that since...

504
00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:35,560
If one agrees that AI is a potential risk to the public,

505
00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:37,080
then there should be some regulatory body that oversees what companies are doing,

506
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:49,480
so that they don't cut corners. And I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. And if we don't do something...

507
00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:51,700
Lay out a scenario for me in the next two,

508
00:16:51,700 --> 00:16:53,520
five, ten years, if nothing is done,

509
00:16:53,580 --> 00:16:55,360
because we're very good at doing nothing,

510
00:16:55,700 --> 00:16:57,700
especially when it comes in the way of profit,

511
00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,380
and this is a big profit engine now for companies,

512
00:17:00,660 --> 00:17:02,700
they're going to want to just compete with each other.

513
00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:03,060
I mean, there are people like Ray Kurzweil,

514
00:17:03,060 --> 00:17:04,720
who doesn't think it's a problem at all. And I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I mean, there are people like Ray Kurzweil,

515
00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:06,420
who doesn't think it's a problem at all.

516
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:12,360
Actually, Ray Kurzweil's prediction for artificial superintelligence is 2029.

517
00:17:12,540 --> 00:17:13,300
He's not far on.

518
00:17:13,980 --> 00:17:14,460
Right.

519
00:17:14,700 --> 00:17:16,140
But he doesn't think it's a problem,

520
00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,140
whereas people like you and Bill Gates,

521
00:17:18,500 --> 00:17:21,480
and Stephen Hawking think it's a problem.

522
00:17:22,620 --> 00:17:23,160
Yeah, it depends.

523
00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:25,080
If some people want to live forever,

524
00:17:25,220 --> 00:17:26,740
or for a much longer period of time,

525
00:17:26,860 --> 00:17:29,640
and they see AI as the only way to...

526
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:33,860
Digital superintelligence is the only thing that can figure out how to get them to live forever.

527
00:17:34,180 --> 00:17:35,720
I think Kurzweil is in that category.

528
00:17:36,060 --> 00:17:37,640
So he would prefer to have AI,

529
00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:39,680
artificial general intelligence,

530
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:40,540
than not,

531
00:17:41,020 --> 00:17:42,440
because it can figure out longevity.

532
00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:45,060
So are you optimistic?

533
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:50,480
I read in your Rolling Stone article back in the day that you said you can never be happy unless you're in love.

534
00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:53,600
Well, you can be half happy,

535
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:58,180
I suppose. I mean, there's two things.

536
00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,020
I think to be most happy,

537
00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,320
if you're happy in love and you love your work,

538
00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:09,820
then you'll be, I think, fully happy if you have one of those two things,

539
00:18:09,820 --> 00:18:11,060
you'll be half happy,

540
00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:12,180
you know, roughly.

541
00:18:12,380 --> 00:18:16,940
I feel like the theme in a lot of your works that connect all these different things is connecting.

542
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:19,460
Like, you want to connect things.

543
00:18:19,900 --> 00:18:21,680
You know, you want to connect on the

544
00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:24,400
Hyperloop, and you want to connect this to Mars,

545
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:26,220
and even Twitter.

546
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:26,800
Or Connect 4.

547
00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:29,000
You want...

548
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:30,080
I love that game.

549
00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:31,400
What?

550
00:18:31,900 --> 00:18:37,240
Connect 4, you know, when you get the...

551
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,300
Sorry, this is a comedy, you know?

552
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:42,160
Gonna throw some comedy in there.

553
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:45,640
It's hard for you,

554
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,340
because when you bought Twitter,

555
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:50,660
you're kind of doing what you did

556
00:18:50,660 --> 00:18:52,020
when you took over...

557
00:18:52,020 --> 00:18:52,960
when you started Tesla.

558
00:18:53,180 --> 00:18:54,360
You lived at the factory,

559
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:54,640
right?

560
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:56,760
I feel like that's your...

561
00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:57,680
that's your...

562
00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:58,840
your pattern.

563
00:18:59,340 --> 00:19:00,700
You get into this thing,

564
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:01,580
and then you got to live

565
00:19:01,580 --> 00:19:03,140
at the factory to make it work.

566
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:03,620
Yeah.

567
00:19:03,620 --> 00:19:04,720
You've been back in...

568
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:05,680
You moved to Texas,

569
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,580
then you went back up to San Francisco because of Twitter.

570
00:19:08,940 --> 00:19:11,760
I was living in the library of Twitter for a while,

571
00:19:12,220 --> 00:19:13,000
yes.

572
00:19:13,460 --> 00:19:16,120
But I think things are reasonably stabilized right now.

573
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,420
It was just on the fast track to bankruptcy

574
00:19:19,420 --> 00:19:22,280
after the acquisition, so I had to take drastic action

575
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:23,220
if there wasn't any choice.

576
00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:25,020
I'm just saying it's hard for a woman.

577
00:19:25,020 --> 00:19:25,280
Yeah.

578
00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:27,600
To, like, when the guy lives at the factory.

579
00:19:28,700 --> 00:19:29,220
Yes.

580
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,280
That could be a stumbling block.

581
00:19:35,300 --> 00:19:35,780
Yes.

582
00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,500
But overall, with, you know, my concern with Twitter

583
00:19:40,500 --> 00:19:41,800
was to...

584
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,060
it is somewhat of the digital town square,

585
00:19:44,180 --> 00:19:48,800
and it's important that there be both the reality and perception

586
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:53,000
of trust for a wide range of viewpoints.

587
00:19:55,180 --> 00:19:57,320
And there was a lot of censorship going on,

588
00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:01,140
and we sort of uncovered a lot of that with the Twitter files,

589
00:20:01,260 --> 00:20:03,380
including a lot of government-driven censorship,

590
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:05,060
which...

591
00:20:05,060 --> 00:20:09,180
APPLAUSE It's...

592
00:20:09,180 --> 00:20:11,740
I mean, it seems that that's got to be a constitutional violation,

593
00:20:11,820 --> 00:20:12,640
what was going on there.

594
00:20:13,380 --> 00:20:15,180
So, and I can...

595
00:20:15,180 --> 00:20:16,180
since I'm, like, an avid Twitter user,

596
00:20:16,180 --> 00:20:17,280
I can detect that,

597
00:20:17,500 --> 00:20:18,600
like, something's not right here.

598
00:20:18,940 --> 00:20:22,220
And so that's really why I did the acquisition.

599
00:20:22,340 --> 00:20:24,460
It wasn't because I thought this was an easy way to make money

600
00:20:24,460 --> 00:20:25,200
or something like that.

601
00:20:26,340 --> 00:20:28,220
This is...

602
00:20:28,220 --> 00:20:29,020
being mayor of Twitter town,

603
00:20:29,120 --> 00:20:30,060
Tweet town, or whatever,

604
00:20:30,860 --> 00:20:34,160
is definitely like there's a lot of arrows pointed at you, like,

605
00:20:34,500 --> 00:20:35,080
flying at you.

606
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:35,760
Yes, of course.

607
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:37,960
But you seem to handle that okay.

608
00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:39,080
I hope you do.

609
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:41,320
Because, look,

610
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,520
I mean, geniuses are going to be a little quirky sometimes,

611
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,040
but your heart is always in the right place.

612
00:20:47,060 --> 00:20:48,800
You were trying to fix this world,

613
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,520
and, look, I could talk to you forever.

614
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:52,300
We can't today.

615
00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:53,440
I'd love to get high with you.

616
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:54,800
I know a great place to do it.

617
00:20:55,540 --> 00:20:57,560
But I can't tell you how much I appreciate you.

618
00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:59,980
I know you have a lot of choices and places you can go.

619
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:02,500
Thank you, Elon Musk, ladies and gentlemen.

620
00:21:02,940 --> 00:21:04,500
All right, I'll see you soon, Elon.

621
00:21:18,820 --> 00:21:20,160
Thank you.

Translations:

Chinese (Simplified) transcription text:

BILL：我的第一位客人是让电动汽车成为现实的人，他目前正致力于完善可重复使用的火箭、太空旅行、将人脑直接连接到计算机、用电磁子弹头列车连接城市，以及对人类非常重要的星链卫星系统。乌克兰战争，然后在星期二，他将致力于交通隧道方面的工作。他也经常发推文。伊隆·马斯克，就在这里。看着你。哇。我有没有得到你在那里一天做的事情的全部顺序？当我在那里阅读时，我遗漏了最后的隧道。

ELON：是的，我有很多工作。

BILL：你做所有这些事情吗？你每天都做这些事吗？你在一天内完成所有这些工作吗？

ELON：没有。但我每天的工作时间确实很长。是的，所以我工作很多。

BILL：嗯，我很高兴你能来，因为我们做了一个节目，我们谈论世界上发生的变化，但我们只是谈论。真正让改变发生的人很少。你是那些人中的一员。可能吧。

ELON：你知道，我只想说我爱这些听众。

BILL：嗯，你是一个可爱的人。

ELON：谢谢。

BILL：我的意思是，他们经常攻击你。

ELON：他们这样做。

BILL：你似乎一笑置之，我认为这太棒了。我喜欢你的幽默感，因为像你这样重要的人会做出改变，可能会将你的力量用于邪恶而不是善良。事实上...

ELON：是的，绝对。

BILL：你可以。

ELON：当然。是的，我从未将它们用于邪恶。

BILL：不，我知道。但我知道那是因为你有幽默感。

ELON：是的。

BILL：你真的有。

ELON：我发誓我有。

BILL：是的，你喜欢笑。你喜欢搞笑。

ELON：我是说，我杀了我。

BILL：对。是的。你知道，我……与扎克伯格这样的人不同，我什至不确定他是不是一个真正的男孩。

ELON：是的。我其实很喜欢喜剧，我会，你知道，就像......很多年前，我实际上是这里的观众，看过你的节目。

BILL：哦，真的吗？

伊隆：所以我长期以来一直是你节目的崇拜者。

BILL：哦，好的，谢谢。我……我……让我回到你是个天才的话题上。好的。所以...但这一直是我的观点，是...我主修历史，当你学习历史时，你会意识到，你知道，有伟人理论，他们谈论国王和王子、王后和总统。真正改变世界的是技术人员。他们是发牌的人，无论是火还是电，无论是好是坏，还是轧棉机、iPhone 或原子弹。那些是牌，我们其他人只是玩它。您是否同意该评估？

ELON：我认为技术是导致文明发生这些重大变化的因素。所以，很明显，你有像古腾堡出版社这样的东西，在这之前很难买到书。他们非常罕见。即使你有求知欲，也实在无能为力，因为可读的书太少了。所以...我认为互联网超越了古腾堡出版社。但是，你知道，当我第一次看到互联网以一种普通大众可以使用的方式出现时，感觉整个人类都在……发展神经系统。因此，以前，信息传播的方式是通过渗透，一个人传给另一个人，或者一个人打电话给另一个人。但是……信息的获取非常有限。现在，有了互联网，就好像有了神经系统。就像人类的任何部分都可以访问人类几乎所有的信息。唔。就像，你可能身处亚马逊丛林中，拥有一个 Starlink 终端，并且可以获得比总统在 1980 年更多的信息。

BILL：是的。嗯，你手机上的任何东西。

ELON：一切。是的。

BILL：好的。所以，你是这些经销商中的一员，这些经销商发牌并寄给你。

ELON：我也发一些名字。是的你是。有些，呃……嗯……

BILL：所以……所以……所以，我想很多人认为，当你购买 Twitter 时，这有点异常。就像，这怎么... 有什么不适合你正在做的这些其他事情？我从没想过。因为我认为你正在处理重大的文明问题和问题，而我......就在你的页面上。我认为推特就是其中之一。我的意思是，你已经谈到了这个唤醒心灵的病毒。

ELON：是的。

BILL：用真正的世界末日术语来说。我不...你应该解释为什么你不认为说它正在将文明推向自杀之类的话是夸张的。首先，什么是wake mind virus？如果我们不处理这个问题，其他任何事情都无法完成。告诉我你为什么这么想。

ELON：是的。所以...我认为我们需要对任何反精英的事情非常谨慎。和任何... 这会导致言论自由受到压制。所以，你知道，这是我认为非常危险的唤醒思维病毒的两个方面。它通常是反精英的吗？你不能质疑事情。甚至质疑也很糟糕。所以，你知道，另一种方法……几乎是匿名的，那就是取消文化。很明显，人们曾多次试图取消你。

BILL：很多次。

ELON：是的。我的意思是...

BILL：每周。

ELON：是的。

BILL：从左到右。我从两方面都有。

ELON：是的。

BILL：这很有趣。你和我都属于那一小群人。也许现在是一个更大的群体。

ELON：是的。

BILL：谁被称为保守派，谁就没有真正改变过。我不认为你是一个保守派。

ELON：我绝对......是的，就像......我至少认为自己是一个温和派。你知道，所以......我的意思是......至少，就像......我花了我生命中的大量精力来建设可持续能源，你知道，电动汽车，电池，太阳能和其他东西，以帮助保护环境。那不是……那不是……不，不，不。不完全正确。

BILL：不，你曾经画过那个图表，你在这里。我与此有关。而且，世界已经改变了。

ELON：对。

BILL：我也有同感。我觉得很多时候觉醒并不是建立在自由主义之上的。它与自由主义相反。我可以提一下。

ELON：是的，完全正确。

BILL：很多例子都是相反的，包括言论自由。

ELON：言论自由实际上非常重要.奇怪的是，我们已经到了这样的地步，比如，言论自由曾经是左派或自由主义的价值观。然而，你知道，我们从剩下的引号中看到了实际审查的愿望。这看起来很疯狂。我的意思是，我认为我们应该非常关注任何破坏第一修正案的事情。第一修正案是有原因的。第一修正案是因为人们来自不能自由发言的国家，在那里说某些话会让你被关进监狱。他们就像，好吧，我们不想在这里。顺便说一句，在世界许多地方，包括人们可能认为与美国相对相似的世界部分，言论法是严厉的。

BILL：英格兰完全不同。

ELON：我不会说出任何国家的名字，但是...

BILL：英格兰。我们为什么要保护他们？他们没有第一修正案。在英国证明诽谤很容易。

ELON：我爱英国。但是...

BILL：是的，我也是。但我不想说错话。是的。你可能更容易被起诉。我的意思是，法国有法律。我认为如果你否认大屠杀，我认为这是可恶的，但我也认为它应该是言论自由的一部分，你可能会被投入监狱。好的，所以这个...

ELON：我真的不能再强调这一点了。我们必须……我们必须保护言论自由。言论自由才重要……只有当你不喜欢的人说你不喜欢的话时，它才有意义。因为显然，您喜欢的演讲是...

BILL：是的。

ELON：您知道，这很简单。所以它是...它是...关于审查制度的事情是，对于那些提倡它的人来说，请记住，在某个时候，它会回报给你。

BILL：所以...这个... 唤醒心灵病毒，它是如何开始的？是蝙蝠吗？是不是……是的。逃离实验室？我的意思是，你对...的评估是什么，因为它是最近的。为什么...它是如何开始的，为什么？

ELON：我想弄清楚它是从哪里来的。我认为它实际上已经酝酿了很长时间，因为它...我认为它已经持续了一段时间。它……而且……学校和大学中发生的灌输的数量，我认为，远远超出了家长们的认识。我只是有点晚才意识到这一点。我们在高中和大学的经历不是今天孩子们的经历。并没有，我不知道，10 年，也许 20 年。所以...

BILL：父母本身也是问题的重要组成部分吗？他们...

ELON：嗯，我想在某些情况下，父母...但我认为...父母一般都不知道他们的孩子正在接受什么教育。或者他们没有被教导什么。

BILL：他们让孩子们认为他们是平等的。

ELON：我的意思是......是的，让我给你一个一个正直的人告诉我的例子，你知道，他的女儿在...上大学......对不起，在湾区上高中。和...他问他们，嗯，那么谁是……你知道，美国前几任总统是谁？他们可以说出华盛顿的名字，但是……我说，好吧，你对他了解多少？好吧，他是一个奴隶主。还有什么？正确的。确切地。没有什么。正确的。就像，好吧，那是……也许你应该知道的不止于此。你知道？是的。

BILL：是的。和那就是觉醒病毒。确切地。是的。

埃隆：是的。确切地。就像……你知道，……你知道，奴隶制显然是一个可怕的制度，但我们仍然应该比那更多地了解乔治华盛顿。

BILL：顺便说一句，那个是自古以来，世界各地，包括有色人种在内的每个种族都在实践。很遗憾地告诉你。它在圣经中很重要。

ELON：当然。所以...

BILL：圣经喜欢它。我们……真的！

ELON：是的。他们非常严格，比如，你知道，不要在那种事情上带走别人的奴隶。

BILL：是的，但从来没有人说过，只是不要这样做。

ELON：他们没有。他们没有。圣经中从来没有说奴隶制是不好的。不，不，不，他们根本不谴责它。他们只是……所以它是……

BILL：但是 Twitter 做得还不错，对吧？我的意思是，我今天看到塔克卡尔森最近被解雇了。你刚刚上了他的节目，他丢了工作，所以我希望这不是旧的。是的。

埃隆：是的。但是...希望是的。

BILL：什么，你是死亡天使吗？

ELON：是的，不，确切地说。我不是脱口秀节目中的伤寒玛丽。

BILL：呃……但是他的……

ELON：出于某种原因，人们在那之后就被解雇了。

BILL：但是他昨天或今天在 Twitter 上的咆哮……

ELON：我想那是昨天或什么时候。或者几天前。

BILL：它比每一个有线新闻独白都要多。或类似的东西。对吗？

ELON：嗯，Twitter 拥有大量的受众。因此，有 2.5 亿人平均每天在 Twitter 上花费半小时。所以它每天大约有 120 到 1.3 亿用户小时，而且它一直在增加。所以……嗯……我们什么都没做。需要明确的是，我们没有做任何特别的事情。后来我才知道他在推特上发了一些东西。所以只是 Twitter 受到了很多人的关注。呃，所以... 往往是那些，呃... 读了很多书或对时事感兴趣的人，嗯，嗯... 通常很有影响力。所以...

BILL： 但是大多数发推文的人都是同一个人，对吧？我的意思是，真正发布推文的人应该只是阅读它。我觉得那是……我已经读过很多遍了。它只占 Twitter 用户的一小部分，而且似乎...看，这就是我不再发推文的原因，因为你现在可能是 Tweet Town 的市长。

ELON：是的。推特镇市长。我们正在为此设置上限。

BILL：我很高兴……我喜欢市长喜欢我的笑话。但我不再这样做的原因是因为一群刻薄的女孩仍然存在。这并没有改变。就像，它太容易被取消了。我什至不知道是什么惹恼了他们。他们太疯狂了，这些孩子。我觉得我戴着眼罩走在屋顶上。我随时都可能掉下来。那是最无伤大雅的事情，但就像，你知道，我说乔治华盛顿是一位伟大的总统。好吧，你怎么敢。

ELON：是的。是的，完全正确。我有一些缺陷，但是...

BILL：市长先生，您如何解决这个问题？

ELON：...对创建美国起到了重要作用，所以。 .. 好吧，你不得不说，取消是什么意思？你知道，我的意思是，是的，人们在 Twitter 上攻击你，这是一回事，但坦率地说，这只会增加参与度。所以我会忽略它。

BILL：嗯，这对你来说很容易，因为他们无法夺走你的工作。或者你的十个主要工作中的任何一个，但他们可以抢走我的，顺便说一句，他们曾经做过一次。

ELON：是的。好吧，好吧，公平。

BILL：你知道，我被取消了。

ELON：真的取消了吗？

BILL：是的，我的意思是，就像, 演出取消。就像......好吧，你在国会，前几天在国会，与查克舒默谈论人工智能。我对此很感兴趣，因为你已经从事这个多年了。我一直认为你是对的。我认为你几乎在所有事情上都是对的。我的意思是，让我们生更多的孩子并在火星上抚养他们。我不明白，但没关系。好吧，我只是认为我们应该对文明衰退持谨慎态度...而且我们大多数地方的出生率都在直线下降，是的。

BILL：是的。资源也直线下降。

ELON：不，不，资源会好的。

BILL：但他们不好……他们现在不好。

ELON：你看，我不是在暗示自满。我们确实希望尽快转向可持续能源经济，但我们没有任何资源崩溃的危险。

BILL：但是很多人没有足够的食物或水。水。我们将用完水。他们的沙子快用完了。

ELON：不，地球表面积的 70% 是水。但你不能喝那个。海水淡化便宜得离谱。

BILL：那我们为什么不做呢？

ELON：我们做...

BILL：完成了。你有很多空闲时间。

ELON：完成了。这里有很多脱盐完成。有很多水。这不是问题。我想说清楚。

BILL：好的。所以，让我们来谈谈人工智能，因为，就像，你在 10 年前就已经掌握了这个技巧，而其他人都没有。我一直认为，他是对的。为什么？因为电影看多了。电影中发生的一切，都发生在现实生活中。而且，你知道，如果你制造出比你聪明得多的东西，为什么它们不会成为你的霸主呢？那么你对查克舒默说了什么，我们正在做什么呢？我知道您想暂停 AI，因为就在过去六个月中，ChatGPT 来自您创办的公司……

ELON：是的。嗯，我的意思是，我的一个朋友对奥卡姆剃刀有一种修改，你知道，而不是最简单的事情是最有可能的，比如，最讽刺的结果是最有可能的。

BILL：正确的。是的。

ELON：所以关于人工智能，我只是认为我们应该......我们应该有某种监管监督。所以，你知道，对于任何对公众有危险的东西，如果是飞机、汽车、食品和药品，我们有一些监管监督，基本上就像裁判一样，并确保公司不会削减角落。所以我认为既然……如果有人同意人工智能对公众来说是一种潜在风险，那么应该有一些监管机构来监督公司正在做的事情，这样他们就不会偷工减料并可能成为真正危险的事情。

BILL：如果我们不做某事...请为我设想未来两年、五年、十年内的情景，如果什么都不做，因为我们很擅长什么都不做，特别是当涉及到利润时，这对公司来说是一个巨大的利润引擎，他们只想相互竞争。我的意思是，像 Ray Kurzweil 这样的人根本不认为这是个问题。

ELON：实际上，Ray Kurzweil 对人工超级智能的预测是 2029 年。他已经不远了。

BILL：对。但他认为这不是问题，而像你和比尔盖茨以及斯蒂芬霍金这样的人认为这是问题。

ELON：是的，这取决于。如果有些人想要永生，或者更长的时间，并且他们认为人工智能是唯一的方法......数字超级智能是唯一可以弄清楚如何让他们永生的东西。我认为 Kurzweil 属于这一类。所以他宁愿拥有 AI，即通用人工智能，也不愿没有，因为它可以算出长寿。

BILL：那你乐观吗？那天我在你的滚石杂志文章中读到，你说除非恋爱，否则你永远不会幸福。

ELON：嗯，我想你可以有一半幸福。我的意思是，有两件事。我认为最快乐的是，如果你在爱情中快乐并且热爱你的工作，那么我认为，如果你拥有这两件事之一，你就会完全快乐，你会快乐一半，你知道的，大概。

BILL：我觉得你很多作品的主题都是连接所有这些不同的东西。就像，您想连接事物。你知道，你想连接 Hyperloop，你想连接火星，甚至 Twitter。

ELON：喜欢 Connect 4。

BILL：你想要...

ELON：我喜欢那个游戏。

BILL：什么？

ELON：Connect 4，你知道，当你得到......对不起，这是一部喜剧，你知道？必须在那里放一些喜剧。

BILL：这对你来说很难，因为当你购买 Twitter 时，你正在做你接手时所做的事情......当你开始特斯拉时。你住在工厂，对吧？我觉得那是你的……那是你的……你的模式。你进入这件事，然后你必须住在工厂才能让它发挥作用。你回到了……你搬到了德克萨斯州，然后因为 Twitter 你又回到了旧金山。

ELON：我在 Twitter 的图书馆里住了一段时间，是的。但我认为现在情况已经相当稳定。被收购后正走在破产的快车道上，迫于无奈，我不得不采取激烈的行动。

BILL：我只是说这对女人来说很难。就像，当那个人住在工厂时。

ELON：是的。

BILL：这可能是一个绊脚石。

ELON：但总的来说，与，你知道，我对 Twitter 的担忧是......它有点像数字城市广场，重要的是要有广泛观点的信任的现实和感知。有很多审查制度在进行，我们从 Twitter 文件中发现了很多，包括很多政府驱动的审查制度，这......你知道......它是......我的意思是，这似乎一定是违反宪法的，那里发生了什么。所以，我可以...因为我是一个狂热的 Twitter 用户，所以我可以检测到这里有些不对劲。所以这就是我进行收购的真正原因。这并不是因为我认为这是一种简单的赚钱方式或类似的方式。这是...当市长Twitter 镇、Tweet 镇或其他任何地方，肯定就像有很多箭头指向您，就像飞向您一样。

BILL：是的，当然。但你似乎处理得很好。我希望你会。因为，看，我的意思是，天才有时会有点古怪，但你的心总是在正确的地方。你试图修复这个世界，而且，看，我可以永远和你说话。我们今天不能。我很想和你一起兴奋。我知道一个很棒的地方。但我不能告诉你我有多感激你。我知道你有很多选择和可以去的地方。谢谢埃隆·马斯克，女士们先生们。好吧，我很快就会见到你，埃隆。谢谢。

Chinese (Simplified) transcription subtitles:

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我的第一位客人是制造电动汽车的人，

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目前正致力于完善可重复使用的火箭，

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太空旅行，将人脑直接连接到计算机，

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用电磁子弹头列车连接城市，

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00:00:12,660 --> 00:00:15,740
对乌克兰战争如此重要的星链卫星系统，

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然后在星期二，

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他将致力于交通隧道方面的工作。

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他也经常发推文。

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伊隆·马斯克，就在这里。

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看着你。

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哇。

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我有没有得到你在那里一天做的事情的全部顺序？

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我在那里读书的时候，

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我在最后遗漏了隧道的事情。

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你在做所有这些事情吗？

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是的，我有很多工作。

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你每天都做这些事吗？

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您是否在一天内完成所有这些工作？

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不。

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但我确实有一个漫长的工作日。

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是的，

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所以我工作很多。

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好吧，我很高兴你在这里，

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因为我们做了一个节目，我们谈论世界上发生的变化，

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但我们只是谈话。

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真正让改变发生的人很少。

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你是那些人中的一员。

27
00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:16,020
大概。

28
00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:21,660
你知道，

29
00:01:23,460 --> 00:01:25,540
我只想说我爱这些观众。

30
00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,160
嗯，你是个讨人喜欢的人。

31
00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:32,160
谢谢。我是说，

32
00:01:32,780 --> 00:01:34,000
他们经常攻击你。

33
00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:34,440
他们是这样。

34
00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:38,900
而你似乎一笑置之，

35
00:01:38,900 --> 00:01:40,200
我认为这太棒了。

36
00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:42,800
我喜欢你有幽默感，

37
00:01:42,820 --> 00:01:44,620
因为一个像你一样重要的人

38
00:01:44,620 --> 00:01:48,800
改变可能会用你的力量做坏事而不是做好事。

39
00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:50,880
事实上...

40
00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:51,340
是的，绝对。

41
00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:52,200
你可以。

42
00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:54,460
当然。

43
00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:56,000
是的，我从来没有用它们作恶。

44
00:01:56,100 --> 00:01:56,900
不，我知道。

45
00:01:57,460 --> 00:02:01,940
但我知道那是因为你有幽默感。

46
00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:02,620
是的。

47
00:02:02,820 --> 00:02:03,540
你真的会。

48
00:02:03,900 --> 00:02:04,140
我发誓我知道。

49
00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:05,380
是的，你喜欢笑。

50
00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:06,440
你喜欢搞笑。

51
00:02:06,460 --> 00:02:07,180
我的意思是，我杀了我。

52
00:02:07,580 --> 00:02:07,900
正确的。

53
00:02:07,900 --> 00:02:08,640
是的。

54
00:02:11,260 --> 00:02:11,720
你知道，

55
00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:13,040
我...

56
00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:15,080
与像扎克伯格这样的人相反，

57
00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:17,000
我什至不确定他是不是一个真正的男孩。

58
00:02:18,640 --> 00:02:19,700
是的。

59
00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,360
我其实很喜欢喜剧，

60
00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:27,520
我会，你知道，就像...

61
00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:29,100
很多年前，我居然在这儿的观众席

62
00:02:29,100 --> 00:02:29,960
并观看了你的节目。

63
00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:30,620
哦真的吗？

64
00:02:30,620 --> 00:02:32,380
所以我一直很欣赏你的节目。

65
00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:33,260
那好吧，

66
00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:34,100
谢谢。

67
00:02:34,100 --> 00:02:36,360
我...

68
00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,040
我...

69
00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:40,940
让我回到你是一个天才。

70
00:02:41,220 --> 00:02:41,440
好的。

71
00:02:42,260 --> 00:02:42,600
所以...

72
00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:44,120
但这一直是我的看法，

73
00:02:44,260 --> 00:02:44,760
就是它...

74
00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:45,840
我是历史专业的，

75
00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:46,820
当你学习历史时，

76
00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:48,400
你意识到的是，

77
00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:50,200
你知道，有伟人理论，

78
00:02:50,220 --> 00:02:51,400
他们谈论国王

79
00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:53,520
还有王子、王后和总统。

80
00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:57,380
真正改变世界的是技术人员。

81
00:02:57,500 --> 00:03:00,180
他们是发牌的人，

82
00:03:00,620 --> 00:03:01,080
无论是火还是电，

83
00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:04,940
无论好坏，

84
00:03:05,020 --> 00:03:07,700
或轧棉机或 iPhone

85
00:03:07,700 --> 00:03:09,040
或原子弹。

86
00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:10,260
那些是卡片，

87
00:03:10,340 --> 00:03:12,060
而我们其他人只是玩它。

88
00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:13,800
你同意这样的评价吗？

89
00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:21,060
我认为技术是导致文明发生这些重大变化的原因。

90
00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:23,100
所以，很明显，你有这样的东西，

91
00:03:23,940 --> 00:03:24,980
比如，古腾堡出版社，

92
00:03:25,460 --> 00:03:27,940
在此之前很难买到书。

93
00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:28,840
他们非常罕见。

94
00:03:28,940 --> 00:03:29,060
即使你有求知欲，

95
00:03:29,060 --> 00:03:32,660
你真的无能为力，

96
00:03:33,180 --> 00:03:34,460
因为可读的书很少。

97
00:03:35,820 --> 00:03:35,900
所以...

98
00:03:35,900 --> 00:03:38,440
互联网是某种东西

99
00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:40,840
超越古腾堡出版社，我想。

100
00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:43,540
但是，你知道，这是...

101
00:03:43,540 --> 00:03:46,500
当我第一次看到互联网应运而生时

102
00:03:46,500 --> 00:03:48,580
以普通大众可以使用的方式，

103
00:03:48,580 --> 00:03:54,540
感觉整个人类都……

104
00:03:54,540 --> 00:03:55,760
发展神经系统。

105
00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:57,080
所以，以前，信息传播的方式

106
00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:59,880
将通过渗透作用，

107
00:03:59,900 --> 00:04:00,820
一个人对另一个人，

108
00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:02,620
或一个人呼叫另一个人。

109
00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:06,100
但...

110
00:04:06,100 --> 00:04:07,620
获取信息的途径非常有限。

111
00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:09,160
现在，有了互联网，

112
00:04:09,700 --> 00:04:10,680
这就像有一个神经系统。

113
00:04:10,780 --> 00:04:13,340
就像人类的任何部分都可以访问

114
00:04:13,340 --> 00:04:15,520
几乎所有的人类信息。

115
00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:20,040
唔。就像，你可能在亚马逊丛林中，

116
00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:24,060
例如，使用 Starlink 终端，并可以访问更多信息

117
00:04:24,060 --> 00:04:27,040
比总统在 1980 年所做的还要多。对。

118
00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:28,840
嗯，你手机上的任何东西。

119
00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:29,740
一切。

120
00:04:30,340 --> 00:04:30,920
是...

121
00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:31,180
是的。

122
00:04:31,500 --> 00:04:31,780
好的。

123
00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,040
所以，你是这些经销商之一，

124
00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:36,500
这些发牌并寄给你的人。

125
00:04:36,500 --> 00:04:37,120
我处理一些名字，

126
00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:39,340
也。是的你是。

127
00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:40,260
一些，

128
00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,320
呃……嗯……

129
00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:46,600
所以...

130
00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,540
所以...

131
00:04:50,540 --> 00:04:51,820
所以，我想很多人认为，

132
00:04:51,820 --> 00:04:52,440
当你购买 Twitter 时，

133
00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:52,800
这是一种古怪的做事方式。当你购买 Twitter 时，

134
00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:54,500
这是一种异常值。

135
00:04:54,740 --> 00:04:55,300
比如，这怎么...

136
00:04:55,300 --> 00:04:57,880
什么不适合你正在做的这些其他事情？

137
00:04:57,940 --> 00:04:59,260
我从没想过。

138
00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,900
因为我认为你正在处理重大的文明问题

139
00:05:02,900 --> 00:05:04,860
和问题，我...

140
00:05:04,860 --> 00:05:05,860
就在你的页面上。

141
00:05:06,060 --> 00:05:07,360
我认为推特就是其中之一。

142
00:05:07,540 --> 00:05:10,540
我的意思是，你已经谈到了这种清醒的头脑病毒。

143
00:05:10,540 --> 00:05:10,880
是的。

144
00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,720
用真正的世界末日术语来说。

145
00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:14,520
我不...

146
00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,080
你应该解释为什么你不认为这是夸张的

147
00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:20,160
说它正在将文明推向自杀。

148
00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,400
首先，什么是wake mind virus？

149
00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:24,300
如果我们不处理这个，

150
00:05:24,420 --> 00:05:25,600
没有别的可以做。

151
00:05:25,700 --> 00:05:27,180
告诉我你为什么这么想。

152
00:05:28,140 --> 00:05:28,360
是的。

153
00:05:29,020 --> 00:05:30,500
所以...

154
00:05:30,500 --> 00:05:34,800
我认为我们需要对任何反精英的事情非常谨慎。

155
00:05:35,740 --> 00:05:38,880
以及任何...

156
00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,560
这导致言论自由受到压制。

157
00:05:42,900 --> 00:05:43,280
所以，

158
00:05:43,780 --> 00:05:46,140
你知道，这是我认为非常危险的唤醒思维病毒的两个方面。

159
00:05:46,140 --> 00:05:49,400
它通常是反精英的吗？

160
00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:51,640
你不能质疑事情。

161
00:05:52,700 --> 00:05:53,940
就连提问也很糟糕。

162
00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,240
所以你知道，

163
00:05:57,740 --> 00:06:00,220
另一种方式...

164
00:06:00,220 --> 00:06:02,400
几乎匿名会取消文化。

165
00:06:02,580 --> 00:06:04,320
显然人们已经多次试图取消你。

166
00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:05,060
多次。

167
00:06:05,060 --> 00:06:05,300
是的。

168
00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:05,780
我是说...

169
00:06:05,780 --> 00:06:06,360
每周。

170
00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:06,940
是的。

171
00:06:07,860 --> 00:06:09,660
从左到右。

172
00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:11,080
我从两方面都有。

173
00:06:11,540 --> 00:06:11,860
是的。

174
00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:12,620
这很有趣。

175
00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:13,940
你我都是，

176
00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:16,740
就像，在那一小群人中。也许现在是一个更大的群体。

177
00:06:17,060 --> 00:06:19,000
是的。谁叫保守，

178
00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:20,460
谁没有真正改变。

179
00:06:20,580 --> 00:06:22,620
我不认为你是一个保守派。

180
00:06:22,700 --> 00:06:23,900
我绝对...

181
00:06:23,900 --> 00:06:25,120
是的，就像...

182
00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,340
我至少认为自己是一个温和派。

183
00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:29,460
你知道，所以...

184
00:06:29,460 --> 00:06:30,680
我是说...

185
00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:32,320
至少，像...

186
00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,640
我花费了大量的生命能量

187
00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:38,020
建立可持续能源，你知道，电动汽车，

188
00:06:38,340 --> 00:06:40,000
和电池，太阳能和其他东西，

189
00:06:40,280 --> 00:06:41,300
帮助保护环境。

190
00:06:41,420 --> 00:06:43,480
那不是……那不是……

191
00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:44,360
不，不，

192
00:06:44,780 --> 00:06:45,040
不。

193
00:06:48,740 --> 00:06:49,920
不完全正确。

194
00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,460
不，你曾经画过那个图，

195
00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:54,300
你在哪里。

196
00:06:54,540 --> 00:06:55,600
我与此有关。

197
00:06:55,780 --> 00:06:57,260
而且，世界已经改变了。

198
00:06:57,280 --> 00:06:57,620
正确的。

199
00:06:57,620 --> 00:06:58,660
我有同样的感觉。

200
00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,340
我觉得很多时候觉醒并不是建立在自由主义之上的。

201
00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:03,760
它与自由主义相反。

202
00:07:03,900 --> 00:07:04,220
我可以提一下。

203
00:07:04,220 --> 00:07:04,960
对，就是这样。

204
00:07:05,060 --> 00:07:06,640
许多例子恰恰相反，

205
00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:07,820
包括言论自由。

206
00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:10,720
言论自由实际上非常重要。

207
00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:14,100
奇怪的是我们走到了这一步，

208
00:07:14,100 --> 00:07:17,260
比如，言论自由曾经是左派或自由主义的价值观。

209
00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,800
然而我们看到，

210
00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:22,560
你知道，引号左，

211
00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:25,460
实际审查的愿望。

212
00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,200
这看起来很疯狂。

213
00:07:29,300 --> 00:07:36,920
我的意思是，我认为我们应该非常关注任何破坏第一修正案的事情。

214
00:07:37,060 --> 00:07:38,340
第一修正案是有原因的。

215
00:07:38,340 --> 00:07:41,720
第一修正案是因为人们来自不同国家

216
00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:43,540
他们不能自由发言的地方

217
00:07:43,540 --> 00:07:47,800
在哪里说某些话会让你被投入监狱。

218
00:07:48,460 --> 00:07:48,940
他们就像，

219
00:07:48,980 --> 00:07:50,060
好吧，我们不想在这里。

220
00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:51,320
顺便说一下，

221
00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:52,760
在世界许多地方，

222
00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,760
包括人们可能认为与美国相对相似的世界部分地区，

223
00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:00,540
言论法是严厉的。

224
00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:02,340
英国则完全不同。

225
00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:06,120
我不会说出任何国家的名字，但是...

226
00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:06,680
英国。

227
00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:08,380
我们为什么要保护他们？

228
00:08:08,460 --> 00:08:09,520
他们没有第一修正案。

229
00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:12,760
在英国证明诽谤很容易。

230
00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:13,480
而这里几乎...

231
00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:14,140
我爱英格兰。

232
00:08:14,780 --> 00:08:14,840
但...

233
00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:15,400
是的，你也是。

234
00:08:15,780 --> 00:08:17,960
但我不想说错话。

235
00:08:18,620 --> 00:08:19,080
是的。

236
00:08:19,460 --> 00:08:20,720
你可能更容易被起诉。

237
00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:22,880
我的意思是，法国有法律。

238
00:08:23,020 --> 00:08:24,420
我想如果你否认大屠杀，

239
00:08:24,420 --> 00:08:26,460
我认为这是可恶的，

240
00:08:26,540 --> 00:08:28,600
但我也认为这应该是言论自由的一部分，

241
00:08:29,140 --> 00:08:30,680
你可能会被投入监狱。

242
00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:31,380
好的，

243
00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:32,380
所以这...

244
00:08:32,380 --> 00:08:34,420
我真的不能足够强调这一点。

245
00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:36,280
我们必须...

246
00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:38,140
我们必须保护言论自由。

247
00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:40,180
言论自由只重要...

248
00:08:40,180 --> 00:08:42,520
只有当它是你不喜欢的人时才有意义

249
00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:44,000
说一些你不喜欢的话。

250
00:08:44,860 --> 00:08:47,160
因为很明显，你喜欢的演讲是……

251
00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:47,500
是的。

252
00:08:47,500 --> 00:08:48,120
你知道，这很容易。

253
00:08:48,780 --> 00:08:50,680
所以就是...

254
00:08:50,680 --> 00:08:51,800
这是...

255
00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:52,660
关于审查的事情是，

256
00:08:52,660 --> 00:08:55,200
对于那些提倡它的人，

257
00:08:55,740 --> 00:08:58,260
请记住，在某个时候，它会回报给你。

258
00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:03,780
掌声 所以...

259
00:09:03,780 --> 00:09:05,760
这...

260
00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:09,060
唤醒心灵病毒，它是如何开始的？

261
00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:09,960
是蝙蝠吗？

262
00:09:10,100 --> 00:09:11,040
是不是...

263
00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:11,380
是的。

264
00:09:11,380 --> 00:09:12,680
逃离实验室？

265
00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,120
我的意思是，你对……的评价是什么？

266
00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:16,540
因为它是相当新的。

267
00:09:17,340 --> 00:09:18,160
为什么...

268
00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:19,140
它是如何开始的，为什么？

269
00:09:19,140 --> 00:09:24,160
我试图弄清楚它是从哪里来的。

270
00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:25,820
我觉得其实酝酿了很久，

271
00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:28,440
因为它是...

272
00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:31,040
我认为这已经持续了一段时间。

273
00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:33,760
它...

274
00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:35,760
和...

275
00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:40,840
在学校和大学中发生的灌输量是，

276
00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:42,520
我想，远远超出了父母的认知。

277
00:09:44,140 --> 00:09:46,120
我只是有点晚才意识到这一点。

278
00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:55,120
我们在高中和大学的经历不是今天孩子们的经历。

279
00:09:56,140 --> 00:09:58,260
还没有，我不知道，

280
00:09:58,980 --> 00:10:00,520
10年，也许20年。

281
00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:02,640
所以...

282
00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,360
父母自己也是问题的重要组成部分吗？

283
00:10:06,100 --> 00:10:06,500
他们...

284
00:10:06,500 --> 00:10:06,820
出色地，

285
00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:09,900
我想在某些情况下，父母...

286
00:10:09,900 --> 00:10:10,640
但我认为，就像，

287
00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:11,920
这...

288
00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,620
父母通常不知道他们的孩子正在接受什么教育。

289
00:10:14,860 --> 00:10:15,100
或者他们没有被教导什么。

290
00:10:15,100 --> 00:10:19,680
他们让孩子们认为他们是平等的。

291
00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:21,180
我是说...

292
00:10:21,180 --> 00:10:24,340
是的，让我举个例子，一个公正的人告诉我，

293
00:10:24,740 --> 00:10:27,820
你知道，他的女儿们在...上大学

294
00:10:27,820 --> 00:10:29,720
对不起，去湾区读高中。

295
00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:31,820
和...

296
00:10:31,820 --> 00:10:33,180
他问他们，

297
00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:36,080
就像，那么，谁是...

298
00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,380
你知道，美国的前几任总统是谁？

299
00:10:38,900 --> 00:10:40,360
他们可以说出华盛顿，

300
00:10:40,660 --> 00:10:41,180
但...

301
00:10:41,180 --> 00:10:42,020
我说，嗯，你对他了解多少？

302
00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:42,920
好吧，他是一个奴隶主。

303
00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:43,580
还有什么？

304
00:10:43,580 --> 00:10:45,200
正确的。确切地。没有什么。

305
00:10:46,340 --> 00:10:46,540
正确的。

306
00:10:46,580 --> 00:10:47,960
就像，好吧，那是...

307
00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:49,720
也许你应该知道的不止于此。

308
00:10:50,180 --> 00:10:50,500
你知道？

309
00:10:50,820 --> 00:10:51,120
是的。

310
00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:51,700
是的。

311
00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,180
那就是 Waltz-Mind 病毒。

312
00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:55,460
确切地。是的。

313
00:10:55,980 --> 00:10:56,080
是的。

314
00:10:57,180 --> 00:10:57,880
确切地。

315
00:10:58,160 --> 00:10:59,600
就像是...

316
00:10:59,600 --> 00:10:59,740
你知道，

317
00:11:00,900 --> 00:11:01,940
这...

318
00:11:01,940 --> 00:11:05,160
你知道，奴隶制显然是一个可怕的制度，

319
00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,720
但我们对乔治华盛顿的了解应该还不止于此。

320
00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:09,320
顺便说一下，

321
00:11:09,340 --> 00:11:11,100
全世界都在实践的一种，

322
00:11:11,380 --> 00:11:14,020
永远，自时间开始以来，每一个种族，

323
00:11:14,540 --> 00:11:15,380
包括有色人种。

324
00:11:15,540 --> 00:11:16,440
很遗憾地告诉你。

325
00:11:16,680 --> 00:11:17,800
它在圣经中是巨大的。

326
00:11:18,260 --> 00:11:18,540
绝对地。

327
00:11:19,020 --> 00:11:19,220
所以...

328
00:11:19,220 --> 00:11:19,800
圣经喜欢它。

329
00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:20,840
是...

330
00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:21,940
我...

331
00:11:21,940 --> 00:11:22,340
真的吗？

332
00:11:22,340 --> 00:11:22,660
是的。

333
00:11:22,820 --> 00:11:24,500
他们相当严格，

334
00:11:24,780 --> 00:11:26,780
就像，你知道的，不要在那种事情上带走别人的奴隶。

335
00:11:26,780 --> 00:11:28,040
是的，但从来没有人说，

336
00:11:28,380 --> 00:11:29,020
只是不要这样做。

337
00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:29,680
他们没有。

338
00:11:29,700 --> 00:11:30,500
他们没有。

339
00:11:30,680 --> 00:11:32,900
圣经中从来没有说奴隶制是不好的。

340
00:11:33,300 --> 00:11:33,620
不，不。

341
00:11:34,020 --> 00:11:35,700
不，他们根本不谴责它。

342
00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:37,080
他们只是...

343
00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:37,220
所以...

344
00:11:37,220 --> 00:11:38,240
所以就是...

345
00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:39,800
但 Twitter 做得并不坏，

346
00:11:39,940 --> 00:11:40,040
正确的？

347
00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:44,620
我的意思是，我今天看到塔克卡尔森最近被解雇了。

348
00:11:44,680 --> 00:11:46,460
你只是在他的节目中，他丢了工作，

349
00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:47,600
所以我希望这不是旧的。

350
00:11:48,560 --> 00:11:49,880
是的。是的。但...

351
00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:50,800
希望是的。

352
00:11:50,940 --> 00:11:52,440
什么，你是死亡天使？

353
00:11:52,700 --> 00:11:53,480
是的，不，完全正确。

354
00:11:53,980 --> 00:11:56,280
我不是脱口秀节目中的伤寒玛丽。

355
00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:57,980
呃...

356
00:11:57,980 --> 00:11:58,300
但是他的...

357
00:11:58,300 --> 00:12:00,220
出于某种原因，人们在那之后就被解雇了。

358
00:12:00,220 --> 00:12:04,280
但他昨天或今天在 Twitter 上的咆哮......

359
00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:05,300
我想那是昨天什么的。

360
00:12:05,620 --> 00:12:05,840
或者几天前。

361
00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:09,580
它所做的比每一个有线新闻独白都要多。

362
00:12:09,580 --> 00:12:09,980
是的。

363
00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:10,680
或类似的东西。

364
00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:11,340
是对的吗？

365
00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:12,100
出色地，

366
00:12:12,420 --> 00:12:13,400
Twitter 拥有庞大的受众群体。

367
00:12:13,500 --> 00:12:17,380
因此，有 2.5 亿人平均每天在 Twitter 上花费半小时。

368
00:12:17,420 --> 00:12:20,500
所以每天大约有 120 到 1.3 亿用户小时，

369
00:12:20,500 --> 00:12:21,300
而且一直在增加。

370
00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:24,580
所以……嗯……

371
00:12:24,580 --> 00:12:25,760
我们什么也没做。

372
00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:27,860
需要明确的是，我们没有做任何特别的事情。

373
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,100
后来我才知道他在推特上发了一些东西。

374
00:12:32,020 --> 00:12:35,240
毫米。所以只是 Twitter 受到了很多人的关注。

375
00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:35,740
呃，

376
00:12:36,100 --> 00:12:36,440
所以...

377
00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:38,760
往往是那些人，

378
00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:39,700
呃...

379
00:12:39,700 --> 00:12:42,540
阅读很多或对时事感兴趣，

380
00:12:42,580 --> 00:12:44,840
嗯，还有，嗯……

381
00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:46,160
一般都挺有影响力的。

382
00:12:46,740 --> 00:12:47,220
所以...

383
00:12:47,220 --> 00:12:49,580
但大多数发推文的人都是同一个人，

384
00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:49,800
正确的？

385
00:12:49,820 --> 00:12:51,600
我的意思是，真正发推文的人

386
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:52,800
应该只是阅读它。

387
00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:53,220
是的。

388
00:12:53,460 --> 00:12:54,500
我觉得那是...

389
00:12:54,500 --> 00:12:55,540
我已经读过很多遍了。

390
00:12:55,700 --> 00:12:58,880
它只占推特上的一小部分人，

391
00:12:58,980 --> 00:12:59,840
似乎...

392
00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:00,140
是的。

393
00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:02,040
看，这就是我不再发推文的原因，

394
00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:03,780
因为你现在可能是 Tweet Town 的市长。

395
00:13:03,780 --> 00:13:04,700
是的。

396
00:13:04,940 --> 00:13:05,700
推特镇市长。

397
00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:07,180
我们对此有所限制。

398
00:13:07,180 --> 00:13:08,380
我很高兴...

399
00:13:08,380 --> 00:13:10,900
我喜欢市长喜欢我的笑话。

400
00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:12,860
但我不再这样做的原因

401
00:13:12,860 --> 00:13:16,640
是因为卑鄙的女孩的暴民仍然存在。

402
00:13:17,020 --> 00:13:18,800
这并没有改变。

403
00:13:18,860 --> 00:13:21,800
就像，它太容易被取消了。

404
00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:25,680
我什至不知道是什么惹恼了他们。

405
00:13:25,740 --> 00:13:27,140
他们太疯狂了，这些孩子。

406
00:13:27,580 --> 00:13:30,080
我觉得我戴着眼罩走在屋顶上。

407
00:13:30,300 --> 00:13:31,580
我随时都可能掉下来。

408
00:13:31,580 --> 00:13:34,020
那是最无伤大雅的事情，

409
00:13:34,060 --> 00:13:37,080
但这就像，你知道，我说乔治华盛顿是一位伟大的总统。

410
00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:38,520
好吧，你怎么敢。

411
00:13:38,780 --> 00:13:39,040
是的。

412
00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:39,860
是的，完全正确。

413
00:13:39,900 --> 00:13:40,320
我有一些缺陷，

414
00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:41,460
但...

415
00:13:41,460 --> 00:13:42,500
那么你如何解决这个问题，

416
00:13:42,500 --> 00:13:46,260
市长先生？ ...在创建美国方面发挥了重要作用，所以...

417
00:13:46,260 --> 00:13:47,440
是的。出色地，

418
00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:48,380
你不得不说，

419
00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:49,680
比如，取消是什么意思？

420
00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,260
你知道，我的意思是，是的，人们在 Twitter 上攻击你，

421
00:13:52,260 --> 00:13:54,840
这是一回事，但坦率地说，这只会增加参与度。

422
00:13:55,460 --> 00:13:56,980
所以我会忽略它。

423
00:13:57,520 --> 00:13:58,960
嗯，这对你来说很容易，

424
00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:00,560
因为他们不能夺走你的工作。

425
00:14:00,560 --> 00:14:03,580
或者你主要的十种工作中的任何一种，

426
00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:04,820
但他们可以拿走我的，

427
00:14:04,820 --> 00:14:05,600
他们做了一次，

428
00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:06,200
顺便一提。

429
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:06,820
是的。

430
00:14:07,020 --> 00:14:07,480
好吧，好吧，公平。

431
00:14:07,580 --> 00:14:09,400
你知道，我就像，字面上被取消了。

432
00:14:09,900 --> 00:14:10,280
真的取消了吗？

433
00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:12,600
是的，我的意思是，节目被取消了。

434
00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:13,980
就像是...

435
00:14:13,980 --> 00:14:15,680
好的，所以你在国会，

436
00:14:16,140 --> 00:14:17,200
前几天在国会，

437
00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:18,980
与 Chuck Schumer 谈论 AI。

438
00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:20,180
我对这个很感兴趣

439
00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:21,780
因为你已经在这上面多年了。

440
00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:23,940
我一直认为你是对的。

441
00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:25,700
我认为你几乎在所有事情上都是对的。

442
00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:28,300
我的意思是，让我们生更多的孩子并在火星上抚养他们。

443
00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:29,100
我不明白，但没关系。

444
00:14:29,100 --> 00:14:29,860
出色地，

445
00:14:30,900 --> 00:14:32,860
我只是觉得我们应该谨慎

446
00:14:32,860 --> 00:14:35,200
关于文明衰落...

447
00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:38,260
我们大多数地方的出生率都在直线下降，

448
00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:38,520
是的。

449
00:14:38,740 --> 00:14:39,100
正确的。

450
00:14:39,220 --> 00:14:41,300
资源也直线下降。

451
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:43,300
不不不，资源会好的。

452
00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:44,940
但他们并不好...

453
00:14:44,940 --> 00:14:45,940
他们现在不好了。

454
00:14:46,820 --> 00:14:48,580
看，我不是建议自满。

455
00:14:49,380 --> 00:14:51,520
我们确实希望转向可持续能源经济

456
00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:52,580
尽快，

457
00:14:52,820 --> 00:14:56,380
但我们没有任何资源崩溃的危险。

458
00:14:56,940 --> 00:14:58,440
但是很多人没有足够的食物或水。

459
00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:00,540
水。

460
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:02,460
我们会用完水的。

461
00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:04,260
他们的沙子快用完了。

462
00:15:04,700 --> 00:15:04,740
沙。

463
00:15:04,740 --> 00:15:07,640
不，地球表面积的 70% 是水。

464
00:15:08,140 --> 00:15:09,400
但你不能喝那个。

465
00:15:10,420 --> 00:15:12,080
海水淡化便宜得离谱。

466
00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:13,760
那我们为什么不这样做呢？

467
00:15:14,380 --> 00:15:14,900
我们的确是...

468
00:15:14,900 --> 00:15:15,280
完成了。

469
00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:16,280
你有很多空闲时间。

470
00:15:16,500 --> 00:15:16,960
完成了。

471
00:15:17,260 --> 00:15:19,320
进行了大量的海水淡化。

472
00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:20,080
好吧，但是...

473
00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:20,740
有很多水。

474
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:21,420
这不是问题。

475
00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:21,980
我想说清楚。

476
00:15:22,100 --> 00:15:22,540
好的。

477
00:15:22,580 --> 00:15:24,240
所以，让我们谈谈人工智能，因为，

478
00:15:24,580 --> 00:15:25,420
就像，你在 10 年前就知道这个提示，而其他人都没有。

479
00:15:25,420 --> 00:15:28,320
而我一直认为，

480
00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:28,980
他是对的。

481
00:15:29,140 --> 00:15:29,400
为什么？

482
00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:30,860
因为电影看多了。

483
00:15:31,260 --> 00:15:32,340
电影里发生的一切，

484
00:15:32,340 --> 00:15:33,600
这发生在现实生活中。

485
00:15:34,300 --> 00:15:36,660
而且，你知道，如果你制造东西

486
00:15:36,660 --> 00:15:38,080
比你聪明的多，

487
00:15:38,580 --> 00:15:40,280
他们为什么不成为你的霸主？

488
00:15:40,620 --> 00:15:42,280
那么你对查克·舒默说了什么，

489
00:15:42,340 --> 00:15:43,340
我们在做什么？

490
00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,200
我知道你想暂停 AI，

491
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,240
因为就在过去六个月使用 ChatGPT 的时候，

492
00:15:48,540 --> 00:15:49,920
它来自你创办的公司......

493
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:55,120
是的。出色地，

494
00:15:55,620 --> 00:15:58,640
我的意思是，我的一个朋友对奥卡姆剃刀进行了某种修改。

495
00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:01,620
你知道，不是最简单的事情最有可能，

496
00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,020
就像，最具讽刺意味的结果是最有可能的。

497
00:16:05,700 --> 00:16:06,040
正确的。

498
00:16:06,380 --> 00:16:06,760
是的。

499
00:16:07,460 --> 00:16:09,880
所以关于人工智能，

500
00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:10,900
我只是觉得我们应该...

501
00:16:10,900 --> 00:16:24,500
我们应该有某种监管监督。所以，你知道，对于任何对公众构成危险的东西，如果是飞机之类的，我们有一些监管监督，比如裁判，

502
00:16:25,100 --> 00:16:27,840
本质上，并确保公司不偷工减料。

503
00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,520
所以我认为自从...

504
00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:35,560
如果有人同意人工智能对公众构成潜在风险，

505
00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:37,080
那么应该有一些监管机构来监督公司的行为，

506
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:49,480
这样他们就不会偷工减料。我认为这是一个很好的观点。我认为这是一个很好的观点。我认为这是一个很好的观点。如果我们不做某事...

507
00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:51,700
在接下来的两个时间里给我布置一个场景，

508
00:16:51,700 --> 00:16:53,520
五年，十年，如果什么都不做，

509
00:16:53,580 --> 00:16:55,360
因为我们很擅长什么都不做，

510
00:16:55,700 --> 00:16:57,700
尤其是当涉及到利润时，

511
00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,380
这对公司来说是一个巨大的利润引擎，

512
00:17:00,660 --> 00:17:02,700
他们只想互相竞争。

513
00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:03,060
我的意思是，有像 Ray Kurzweil 这样的人，

514
00:17:03,060 --> 00:17:04,720
谁认为这根本不是问题。我认为这是一个很好的观点。我认为这是一个很好的观点。我认为这是一个很好的观点。我的意思是，有像 Ray Kurzweil 这样的人，

515
00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:06,420
谁认为这根本不是问题。

516
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:12,360
实际上，Ray Kurzweil 对人工超级智能的预测是 2029 年。

517
00:17:12,540 --> 00:17:13,300
他不远了。

518
00:17:13,980 --> 00:17:14,460
正确的。

519
00:17:14,700 --> 00:17:16,140
但他认为这不是问题，

520
00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,140
而像你和比尔盖茨这样的人，

521
00:17:18,500 --> 00:17:21,480
斯蒂芬霍金认为这是一个问题。

522
00:17:22,620 --> 00:17:23,160
是的，这取决于。

523
00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:25,080
如果有人想长生不老，

524
00:17:25,220 --> 00:17:26,740
或者更长的一段时间，

525
00:17:26,860 --> 00:17:29,640
他们认为 AI 是唯一的途径...

526
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:33,860
数字超级智能是唯一可以弄清楚如何让他们长生不老的东西。

527
00:17:34,180 --> 00:17:35,720
我认为 Kurzweil 属于这一类。

528
00:17:36,060 --> 00:17:37,640
所以他宁愿有人工智能，

529
00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:39,680
通用人工智能，

530
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:40,540
总比没有

531
00:17:41,020 --> 00:17:42,440
因为它可以算出长寿。

532
00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:45,060
那你乐观吗？

533
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:50,480
那天我在你的滚石杂志文章中读到，你说除非你恋爱了，否则你永远不会幸福。

534
00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:53,600
好吧，你可以快乐一半，

535
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:58,180
我想。我的意思是，有两件事。

536
00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,020
我认为最幸福的，

537
00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,320
如果你在爱情中快乐并且热爱你的工作，

538
00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:09,820
那么，我想，如果你拥有这两件事中的一件，你就会非常快乐，

539
00:18:09,820 --> 00:18:11,060
你会快乐一半，

540
00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:12,180
你知道，大概。

541
00:18:12,380 --> 00:18:16,940
我觉得你很多作品的主题都是连接所有这些不同的东西。

542
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:19,460
就像，您想连接事物。

543
00:18:19,900 --> 00:18:21,680
你知道，你想连接

544
00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:24,400
Hyperloop，你想把它连接到火星，

545
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:26,220
甚至推特。

546
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:26,800
或连接 4。

547
00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:29,000
你要...

548
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:30,080
我喜欢那个游戏。

549
00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:31,400
什么？

550
00:18:31,900 --> 00:18:37,240
连接 4，你知道，当你得到...

551
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,300
对不起，这是一部喜剧，你知道吗？

552
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:42,160
会在那里放一些喜剧。

553
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:45,640
难为你，

554
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,340
因为当你购买 Twitter 时，

555
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:50,660
你有点在做你所做的

556
00:18:50,660 --> 00:18:52,020
当你接手...

557
00:18:52,020 --> 00:18:52,960
当你开始特斯拉的时候。

558
00:18:53,180 --> 00:18:54,360
你住在工厂，

559
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:54,640
正确的？

560
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:56,760
我感觉那是你的...

561
00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:57,680
那是你的...

562
00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:58,840
你的模式。

563
00:18:59,340 --> 00:19:00,700
你进入这件事，

564
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:01,580
然后你得活着

565
00:19:01,580 --> 00:19:03,140
在工厂使其工作。

566
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:03,620
是的。

567
00:19:03,620 --> 00:19:04,720
你已经回到...

568
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:05,680
你搬到德克萨斯州，

569
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,580
然后你因为推特又回到了旧金山。

570
00:19:08,940 --> 00:19:11,760
我在 Twitter 的图书馆住了一段时间，

571
00:19:12,220 --> 00:19:13,000
是的。

572
00:19:13,460 --> 00:19:16,120
但我认为现在情况已经相当稳定。

573
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,420
刚刚走上破产的快车道

574
00:19:19,420 --> 00:19:22,280
收购之后，所以我不得不采取激烈的行动

575
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:23,220
如果别无选择。

576
00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:25,020
我只是说这对女人来说很难。

577
00:19:25,020 --> 00:19:25,280
是的。

578
00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:27,600
就像，当那个人住在工厂的时候。

579
00:19:28,700 --> 00:19:29,220
是的。

580
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,280
这可能是一个绊脚石。

581
00:19:35,300 --> 00:19:35,780
是的。

582
00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,500
但总的来说，你知道，我对 Twitter 的担忧

583
00:19:40,500 --> 00:19:41,800
是...

584
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,060
它有点像数字城市广场，

585
00:19:44,180 --> 00:19:48,800
重要的是既有现实又有感知

586
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:53,000
对广泛观点的信任。

587
00:19:55,180 --> 00:19:57,320
并且有很多审查制度正在进行，

588
00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:01,140
我们通过 Twitter 文件发现了很多这样的东西，

589
00:20:01,260 --> 00:20:03,380
包括很多政府驱动的审查制度，

590
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:05,060
哪个...

591
00:20:05,060 --> 00:20:09,180
掌声 这是...

592
00:20:09,180 --> 00:20:11,740
我的意思是，这似乎违反了宪法，

593
00:20:11,820 --> 00:20:12,640
那里发生了什么。

594
00:20:13,380 --> 00:20:15,180
所以，我可以...

595
00:20:15,180 --> 00:20:16,180
因为我是一个狂热的 Twitter 用户，

596
00:20:16,180 --> 00:20:17,280
我可以检测到，

597
00:20:17,500 --> 00:20:18,600
就像，这里有些不对劲。

598
00:20:18,940 --> 00:20:22,220
所以这就是我进行收购的真正原因。

599
00:20:22,340 --> 00:20:24,460
不是因为我认为这是一种简单的赚钱方式

600
00:20:24,460 --> 00:20:25,200
或类似的东西。

601
00:20:26,340 --> 00:20:28,220
这是...

602
00:20:28,220 --> 00:20:29,020
作为推特镇的市长，

603
00:20:29,120 --> 00:20:30,060
推特镇，或其他什么，

604
00:20:30,860 --> 00:20:34,160
肯定就像有很多箭头指向你一样，

605
00:20:34,500 --> 00:20:35,080
飞向你。

606
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:35,760
是的当然。

607
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:37,960
但你似乎处理得很好。

608
00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:39,080
我希望你会。

609
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:41,320
因为，你看，

610
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,520
我的意思是，天才有时会有点古怪，

611
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,040
但你的心总是在正确的地方。

612
00:20:47,060 --> 00:20:48,800
你试图修复这个世界，

613
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,520
而且，看，我可以永远和你说话。

614
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:52,300
我们今天不能。

615
00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:53,440
我很想和你一起兴奋。

616
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:54,800
我知道一个很棒的地方。

617
00:20:55,540 --> 00:20:57,560
但我不能告诉你我有多感激你。

618
00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:59,980
我知道你有很多选择和可以去的地方。

619
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:02,500
谢谢埃隆·马斯克，女士们先生们。

620
00:21:02,940 --> 00:21:04,500
好吧，我很快就会见到你，埃隆。

621
00:21:18,820 --> 00:21:20,160
谢谢。

French transcription text:

BILL : Mon premier invité est l'homme qui a fait des voitures électriques une chose, et travaille actuellement sur le perfectionnement des fusées réutilisables, les voyages dans l'espace, la connexion directe du cerveau humain aux ordinateurs, la connexion des villes avec des trains à grande vitesse électromagnétiques, le système satellite Starlink qui est si important pour la guerre en Ukraine, et puis mardi, il va travailler sur ce truc de tunnel sur le trafic. Il tweete aussi beaucoup. Elon Musk, juste ici. Regarde toi. Ouah. Ai-je compris l'ordre complet des choses que vous faites en une journée là-bas ? Quand je lisais là-bas, j'ai omis le truc du tunnel à la fin.

ELON : Ouais, j'ai beaucoup de travail.

BILL : Travaillez-vous sur toutes ces choses ? Faites-vous toutes ces choses tous les jours ? Travaillez-vous sur chacun d'eux en une seule journée ?

ELON : Non. Mais j'ai une longue journée de travail. Ouais, donc je travaille beaucoup.

BILL : Eh bien, je suis tellement ravi que tu sois là, parce que nous faisons une émission où nous parlons des changements qui se produisent dans le monde, mais nous parlons juste. Il y a très peu de gens qui font réellement changer les choses. Vous êtes une de ces personnes. Probablement.

ELON : Vous savez, je veux juste dire que j'aime ce public.

BILL : Eh bien, vous êtes un gars sympathique.

ELON : Merci.

BILL : Je veux dire, ils vous attaquent beaucoup.

ELON : Ils le font.

BILL : Et vous semblez en rire, ce que je trouve fantastique. J'aime que vous ayez le sens de l'humour, car un gars aussi important que vous qui fait des changements pourrait utiliser vos pouvoirs pour le mal et non pour le bien. Le fait que...

ELON : Oui, absolument.

BILL : Vous pourriez.

ELON : Bien sûr. Ouais, je ne les ai jamais utilisés pour le mal.

BILL : Non, je sais. Mais la façon dont je le sais, c'est parce que vous avez le sens de l'humour.

ELON : Ouais.

BILL : Vraiment.

ELON : Je le jure.

BILL : Ouais, tu aimes rire. Tu aimes être drôle.

ELON : Je veux dire, je me tue.

BILL : C'est vrai. Ouais. Vous savez, je... Par opposition à quelqu'un comme Zuckerberg, dont je ne suis même pas sûr qu'il soit un vrai garçon.

ELON : Ouais. En fait, j'adore la comédie, et je vais, vous savez, comme... Il y a de nombreuses années, j'étais dans le public ici et j'ai regardé votre émission.

BILL : Oh, vraiment ?

ELON : Je suis donc un admirateur de longue date de votre émission.

BILL : Oh, eh bien, merci. Je... Je... Permettez-moi de vous dire que vous êtes un génie. D'accord. Donc... Mais ça a toujours été mon point de vue, c'est que... j'étais étudiante en histoire, et quand vous étudiez l'histoire, ce que vous réalisez, c'est que, vous savez, il y a la théorie du grand homme, et ils parlent des rois et princes et reines et présidents. Ce sont vraiment les gens de la technologie qui changent le monde. Ce sont eux qui distribuent les cartes, que ce soit le feu ou l'électricité, pour le meilleur ou pour le pire, ou l'égreneuse de coton, l'iPhone ou la bombe atomique. Ce sont les cartes, et le reste d'entre nous ne fait que jouer. Seriez-vous d'accord avec cette évaluation ? Donc, évidemment, vous avez des choses comme, disons, la presse Gutenberg, avant laquelle il était très difficile d'obtenir des livres. Ils étaient très rares. Même si vous aviez soif de connaissances, vous ne pouviez vraiment rien y faire, car il y avait très peu de livres à lire. Donc... Et Internet est quelque chose au-delà de la Presse Gutenberg, je pense. Mais, vous savez, c'est... Quand j'ai vu pour la première fois Internet naître d'une manière que le grand public puisse l'utiliser, j'ai eu l'impression que l'humanité dans son ensemble était en train de... développer un système nerveux. Ainsi, auparavant, la façon dont l'information voyageait se faisait par osmose, d'une personne à l'autre, ou d'une personne en appelant une autre. Mais... L'accès à l'information était très limité. Maintenant, avec Internet, c'est comme avoir un système nerveux. C'est comme si n'importe quelle partie de l'humanité avait accès à presque toutes les informations de l'humanité. Hmm. Par exemple, vous pourriez être au milieu de la jungle amazonienne, avec, disons, un terminal Starlink, et avoir accès à plus d'informations que le président n'en avait en 1980.

BILL : Exact. Eh bien, n'importe quoi sur votre téléphone.

ELON : Tout. Ouais.

BILL : D'accord. Donc, vous faites partie de ces dealers, ces gens qui distribuent les cartes et vous les envoient.

ELON : Je distribue aussi quelques noms. Oui, vous le faites. Certains, euh... Um...

BILL : Alors... Alors... Donc, je pense que beaucoup de gens pensaient, quand vous avez acheté Twitter, que c'était une sorte d'aberration. Comme, comment ça... Qu'est-ce qui ne colle pas avec ces autres choses que tu fais ? Je n'ai jamais pensé ça. Parce que je pense que vous traitez de gros problèmes de civilisation, et j'étais juste sur votre page. Je pense que Twitter en fait partie. Je veux dire, vous avez parlé de ce virus de l'esprit éveillé.

ELON : Oui.

BILL : En termes vraiment apocalyptiques. Je ne sais pas...Vous devriez expliquer pourquoi vous ne pensez pas que ce soit une hyperbole de dire des choses comme pousser la civilisation vers le suicide. Tout d'abord, qu'est-ce que le virus de l'esprit éveillé ? Et si nous ne nous en occupons pas, rien d'autre ne peut être fait. Dites-moi pourquoi vous pensez cela.

ELON : Ouais. Donc... Je pense que nous devons être très prudents avec tout ce qui est anti-méritocratique. Ettout ce qui est... Cela entraîne la suppression de la liberté d'expression. Donc, vous savez, ce sont deux des aspects du virus de l'esprit éveillé qui, à mon avis, sont très dangereux. C'est que c'est souvent anti-méritocratique. Vous ne pouvez pas remettre les choses en question. Même le questionnement est mauvais. Donc, vous savez, une autre façon de... Presque anonyme serait d'annuler la culture. Et évidemment, les gens ont essayé de vous annuler plusieurs fois.

BILL : Plusieurs fois.

ELON : Ouais. Je veux dire...

BILL : Chaque semaine.

ELON : Ouais.

BILL : De gauche à droite. Je l'ai eu des deux côtés.

ELON : Ouais.

BILL : Et c'est intéressant. Toi et moi sommes tous les deux, genre, dans ce petit groupe de personnes. Peut-être que c'est un plus grand groupe maintenant.

ELON : Ouais.

BILL : Qui sont appelés conservateurs, qui n'ont pas vraiment changé. Je ne te considère pas comme un conservateur.

ELON : Je suis définitivement... Ouais, comme... Je me considère au moins comme un modéré. Vous savez, donc... Je veux dire... Au moins, comme... J'ai passé une grande partie de mon énergie vitale à construire de l'énergie durable, vous savez, des véhicules électriques, des batteries, et du solaire et tout, pour aider sauver l'environnement. Ce n'est pas un... Ce n'est pas un... Non, non, non. Pas tout à fait à droite.

BILL : Non, vous avez dessiné ce schéma une fois, où vous êtes ici. J'étais lié à ça. Et, comme, le monde a changé.

ELON : C'est vrai.

BILL : Je ressens la même chose. J'ai l'impression que très souvent, l'éveil ne s'appuie pas sur le libéralisme. C'est le contraire du libéralisme. Je peux le mentionner.

ELON : Oui, exactement.

BILL : De nombreux exemples où c'est le contraire, y compris la liberté d'expression.

ELON : La liberté d'expression est en fait extrêmement importante . Et c'est bizarre que nous en soyons arrivés à ce point où, par exemple, la liberté d'expression était une valeur de gauche ou libérale. Et pourtant, nous voyons, vous savez, les guillemets à gauche, un désir de censurer réellement. Et cela semble fou. Je veux dire, je pense que nous devrions être extrêmement préoccupés par tout ce qui sape le premier amendement. Il y a une raison pour le premier amendement. Le premier amendement, c'est parce que les gens venaient de pays où ils ne pouvaient pas parler librement et où dire certaines choses vous ferait jeter en prison. Et ils étaient comme, eh bien, nous ne voulons pas de ça ici. Et soit dit en passant, dans de nombreuses parties du monde, y compris des parties du monde que les gens pourraient penser être relativement similaires aux États-Unis, les lois sur la parole sont draconiennes.

BILL : L'Angleterre est assez différente.

ELON : Je ne nommerai aucun pays, mais...

BILL : l'Angleterre. Pourquoi les protégeons-nous ? Ils n'ont pas de premier amendement. C'est très facile de prouver la diffamation en Angleterre.

ELON : J'adore l'Angleterre. Mais...

BILL : Ouais, moi aussi. Mais je ne voudrais pas dire la mauvaise chose. Oui. Vous pourriez être poursuivi plus facilement. Je veux dire, il y a des lois en France. Je pense que si vous niez l'Holocauste, ce que je trouve odieux, mais je pense aussi que cela devrait faire partie de la liberté d'expression, vous pouvez être jeté en prison. Bon, donc ça...

ELON : Je ne peux vraiment pas insister assez là-dessus. Nous devons... Nous devons protéger la liberté d'expression. Et la liberté d'expression n'a d'importance que... Elle n'est pertinente que lorsque quelqu'un que vous n'aimez pas dit quelque chose que vous n'aimez pas. Car évidemment, le discours que tu aimes c'est...

BILL : Oui.

ELON : Tu sais, c'est facile. Donc c'est... Et c'est... Le truc avec la censure c'est que, pour ceux qui la préconiseraient, souvenez-vous juste qu'à un moment donné, ça vous reviendra.

BILL : Alors... Ça ... le virus de l'esprit éveillé, comment a-t-il commencé ? Était-ce des chauves-souris ? Était-ce un... Ouais. Évadez-vous d'un laboratoire? Je veux dire, quelle est votre évaluation de... Parce que c'est assez récent. Pourquoi... Comment ça a commencé et pourquoi ?

ELON : J'essayais de comprendre d'où ça venait. Je pense que ça fait longtemps que ça se prépare, en ce sens que c'est... Je pense que ça dure depuis un moment. Ça... Et... La quantité d'endoctrinement qui se passe dans les écoles et les universités est, je pense, bien au-delà de ce que les parents réalisent. Et je ne m'en suis rendu compte qu'un peu tard. L'expérience que nous avons eue au lycée et au collège n'est pas celle que vivent les enfants d'aujourd'hui. Et ça fait, je ne sais pas, 10 ans, peut-être 20 ans. Alors...

BILL : Les parents eux-mêmes sont-ils aussi une grande partie du problème ? Ils...

ELON : Eh bien, je suppose que dans certains cas, les parents... Mais je pense, comme, le... Les parents ne sont généralement pas au courant de ce qu'on enseigne à leurs enfants. Ou ce qu'on ne leur apprend pas.

BILL : Ils laissent les enfants penser qu'ils sont égaux.

ELON : Je veux dire... Ouais, laissez-moi vous donner un exemple qu'un homme juste m'a dit, que, vous savez, ses filles vont à l'université en... Désolé, aller au lycée dans la Bay Area. Et...Et il leur demandait, genre, eh bien, qui sont les... Vous savez, qui sont les premiers présidents des États-Unis ? Ils pourraient nommer Washington, mais... Et j'ai dit, eh bien, que savez-vous de lui ? Eh bien, il était propriétaire d'esclaves. Quoi d'autre? Droite. Exactement. Rien. Droite. Comme, d'accord, c'est... Peut-être devriez-vous en savoir plus que ça. Tu sais? Ouais.

BILL : Ouais. Etc'est le virus de l'esprit éveillé. Exactement. Ouais.

ELON : Ouais. Exactement. C'est comme... Vous savez, le... Vous savez, l'esclavage est évidemment une horrible institution, mais nous devrions quand même en savoir plus sur George Washington que ça.

BILL : Et au fait, une qui était pratiqué partout dans le monde, depuis toujours, depuis la nuit des temps, par toutes les races, y compris les personnes de couleur. Je suis désolé de vous le dire. C'est énorme dans la Bible.

ELON : Absolument. Alors...

BILL : La Bible adore ça. Nous sommes... Vraiment !

ELON : Oui. Ils sont assez stricts sur, comme, vous savez, ne prenez pas l'esclave de quelqu'un d'autre dans ce genre de choses. *
ELON : Ils ne le font pas. Ils ne le font pas. À aucun moment, il n'est dit que l'esclavage est mauvais dans la Bible. Non. Non. Non. Ils ne le condamnent pas du tout. Ils ont juste... Alors c'est...

BILL : Mais Twitter ne va pas mal, n'est-ce pas ? Je veux dire, j'ai vu aujourd'hui que Tucker Carlson a récemment été viré. Tu étais juste dans son émission et il a perdu son emploi, alors j'espère que ce n'est pas un ancien. Ouais.

ELON : Ouais. Mais... Avec un peu de chance, ouais.

BILL : Quoi, tu es l'ange de la mort ?

ELON : Ouais, non, exactement. Je ne suis pas la Mary typhoïde des talk-shows.

BILL : Euh... Mais son...

ELON : Pour une raison quelconque, les gens se font virer après ça.

BILL : Mais sa diatribe hier ou aujourd'hui sur Twitter...

ELON : Je pense que c'était hier ou quelque chose comme ça. Ou il y a quelques jours.

BILL: Il a fait plus que n'importe quel monologue d'informations sur le câble. Ou quelque chose comme ça. C'est bien ça ?

ELON : Eh bien, Twitter a une audience énorme. Il y a donc 250 millions de personnes qui passent en moyenne une demi-heure par jour sur Twitter. Il s'agit donc d'environ 120 à 130 millions d'heures d'utilisation par jour, et cela ne cesse d'augmenter. Alors... Euh... Nous n'avons rien fait. Pour être clair, nous n'avons rien fait de spécial. J'ai appris par la suite qu'il avait posté quelque chose sur Twitter. C'est donc juste que Twitter attire beaucoup l'attention des gens. Euh, donc... Et ce sont généralement les gens qui sont, euh... Qui lisent beaucoup ou qui s'intéressent à l'actualité, euh, et, euh... Ils sont généralement assez influents. Donc...

BILL : Mais la plupart des gens qui tweetent sont les mêmes, n'est-ce pas ? Je veux dire, les gens qui tweetent sont censés simplement le lire. J'ai l'impression que c'est... J'ai lu ça plusieurs fois. C'est un très petit pourcentage des gens sur Twitter, et il semble que... Voyez, voici pourquoi je ne tweete plus, parce que vous êtes peut-être le maire de Tweet Town maintenant.

ELON : Ouais. Maire de Tweet Town. Nous obtenons un plafond avec ça.

BILL : Et je suis content... Et j'aime que le maire aime mes blagues. Mais la raison pour laquelle je ne le fais plus, c'est parce que la foule de filles méchantes est toujours là. Et cela n'a pas changé. C'est trop facile d'être annulé. Et je ne sais même pas ce qui les énerve. Ils sont tellement fous, ces enfants. J'ai l'impression de marcher sur un toit avec un bandeau sur les yeux. Je pourrais tomber à tout moment. C'était la chose la plus anodine, mais c'est comme, vous savez, j'ai dit que George Washington était un grand président. Eh bien, comment osez-vous.

ELON: Ouais. Oui exactement. J'avais quelques défauts, mais...

BILL : Alors, comment corrigez-vous cela, M. le Maire ?

ELON : ...instrumental dans la création des États-Unis, donc. .. Eh bien, vous devez dire, comme, qu'est-ce que signifie annulé? Vous savez, je veux dire, oui, les gens vous attaquent sur Twitter, c'est une chose, mais franchement, ça va juste augmenter l'engagement. Donc je l'ignorerais simplement.

BILL : Eh bien, c'est facile pour vous, parce qu'ils ne peuvent pas vous enlever votre travail. Ou n'importe lequel de vos dix emplois principaux, mais ils pourraient prendre le mien, et ils l'ont fait une fois, soit dit en passant.

ELON : Ouais. D'accord, eh bien, juste.

BILL : Vous savez, j'ai été littéralement annulé.

ELON : Littéralement annulé ?

BILL : Ouais, je veux dire, comme , le spectacle est annulé. C'est comme... D'accord, donc vous étiez au Congrès, au Congrès l'autre jour, en train de parler avec Chuck Schumer de l'IA. Cela m'intéresse beaucoup, parce que vous êtes dessus depuis des années. J'ai toujours pensé que tu avais raison à ce sujet. Je pense que tu as raison sur presque tout. Je veux dire, faisons plus de bébés et élevons-les sur Mars. Je ne comprends pas, mais d'accord. Eh bien, je pense juste que nous devrions être prudents face au déclin de la civilisation avec... Et nous avons des taux de natalité en chute libre dans la plupart des endroits, ouais.

BILL : C'est vrai. Et aussi des ressources en chute libre.

ELON : Non, non, les ressources iront bien.

BILL : Mais elles ne vont pas bien... Elles ne vont pas bien maintenant.

ELON : Écoutez, je ne suggère pas la complaisance. Nous voulons passer le plus rapidement possible à une économie énergétique durable, mais nous ne courons aucun risque d'effondrement des ressources.

BILL : Mais beaucoup de gens n'ont pas assez de nourriture ou d'eau. Eau. Nous allons manquer d'eau. Ils manquent de sable.

ELON : Non, la Terre est composée à 70 % d'eau en surface. Mais tu ne peux pas boire ça. Le dessalement est absurdement bon marché.

BILL : Pourquoi ne pas le faire, alors ?

ELON : Nous le faisons...

BILL : C'est fait. Vous avez beaucoup de temps libre.

ELON : C'est fait. Il y a beaucoup dedessalement fait. Il y a beaucoup d'eau. Ce n'est pas un problème. Je veux être clair.

BILL : D'accord. Alors, mais parlons de l'IA, parce que, comme, vous étiez sur ce conseil il y a 10 ans quand personne d'autre ne l'était. Et j'ai toujours pensé qu'il avait raison. Pourquoi? Parce que j'ai vu trop de films. Tout ce qui se passe dans les films, ça se passe dans la vraie vie. Et, vous savez, si vous faites des choses qui sont bien plus intelligentes que vous, pourquoi ne deviendraient-elles pas vos suzerains ? Alors qu'avez-vous dit à Chuck Schumer, et qu'est-ce qu'on fait à propos de ça ? Je sais que vous voulez faire une pause dans l'IA, car au cours des six derniers mois avec ChatGPT, qui venait d'une entreprise que vous avez créée...

ELON : Oui. Eh bien, je veux dire, un de mes amis a une sorte de modification du rasoir d'Occam, vous savez, au lieu que la chose la plus simple soit la plus probable, comme, le résultat le plus ironique est le plus probable.

BILL : Droite. Oui.

ELON : Donc, en ce qui concerne l'IA, je pense simplement que nous devrions être... Nous devrions avoir une sorte de surveillance réglementaire. Donc, vous savez, pour tout ce qui est un danger pour le public, s'il s'agit d'avions, de voitures, de nourriture et de médicaments, nous avons une surveillance réglementaire, comme un arbitre, essentiellement, et nous nous assurons que les entreprises ne coupent pas coins. Donc je pense que depuis... Si l'on convient que l'IA est un risque potentiel pour le public, alors il devrait y avoir un organisme de réglementation qui supervise ce que font les entreprises, afin qu'elles ne prennent pas de raccourcis et ne soient potentiellement quelque chose de vraiment dangereux.

BILL : Et si nous ne faisons rien... Exposez-moi un scénario dans les deux, cinq, dix prochaines années, si rien n'est fait, car nous sommes très doués pour ne rien faire, surtout quand il s'agit de profit, et c'est maintenant un gros moteur de profit pour les entreprises, elles voudront simplement se faire concurrence. Je veux dire, il y a des gens comme Ray Kurzweil, qui ne pensent pas du tout que ce soit un problème.

ELON : En fait, la prédiction de Ray Kurzweil pour la superintelligence artificielle est 2029. Il n'est pas loin.

BILL : Exact. Mais il ne pense pas que ce soit un problème, alors que des gens comme vous et Bill Gates, et Stephen Hawking pensent que c'est un problème.

ELON : Ouais, ça dépend. Si certaines personnes veulent vivre pour toujours, ou pour une période beaucoup plus longue, et qu'elles voient l'IA comme le seul moyen de... La superintelligence numérique est la seule chose qui peut trouver comment les faire vivre pour toujours. Je pense que Kurzweil est dans cette catégorie. Il préférerait donc avoir l'IA, l'intelligence artificielle générale, que non, car elle peut déterminer la longévité.

BILL : Alors, êtes-vous optimiste ? J'ai lu dans votre article de Rolling Stone à l'époque que vous disiez que vous ne pouvez jamais être heureux à moins d'être amoureux.

ELON : Eh bien, vous pouvez être à moitié heureux, je suppose. Je veux dire, il y a deux choses. Je pense que pour être le plus heureux, si vous êtes heureux en amour et que vous aimez votre travail, alors vous serez, je pense, pleinement heureux si vous avez l'une de ces deux choses, vous serez à moitié heureux, vous savez, grosso modo.

BILL : J'ai l'impression que le thème de beaucoup de vos œuvres qui relient toutes ces choses différentes est la connexion. Comme, vous voulez connecter les choses. Vous savez, vous voulez vous connecter sur l'Hyperloop, et vous voulez le connecter à Mars, et même à Twitter.

ELON : Like Connect 4.

BILL : Vous voulez...

ELON : J'adore ce jeu.

BILL : Quoi ?

ELON : Connect 4, vous savez, quand vous obtenez le... Désolé, c'est une comédie, Vous savez? Je dois y jeter un peu de comédie.

BILL : C'est difficile pour vous, parce que lorsque vous avez acheté Twitter, vous faites en quelque sorte ce que vous faisiez lorsque vous avez pris le relais... lorsque vous avez lancé Tesla. Vous viviez à l'usine, n'est-ce pas ? J'ai l'impression que c'est ton... c'est ton... ton modèle. Vous entrez dans ce truc, puis vous devez vivre à l'usine pour que ça marche. Tu es revenu... Tu as déménagé au Texas, puis tu es remonté à San Francisco à cause de Twitter.

ELON : J'ai vécu dans la bibliothèque de Twitter pendant un moment, oui. Mais je pense que les choses sont raisonnablement stabilisées en ce moment. C'était juste sur la voie rapide de la faillite après l'acquisition, donc j'ai dû prendre des mesures drastiques s'il n'y avait pas le choix.

BILL : Je dis juste que c'est difficile pour une femme. Par exemple, quand le type vit à l'usine.

ELON : Oui.

BILL : Cela peut être une pierre d'achoppement.

ELON : Mais dans l'ensemble, avec, vous savez, ma préoccupation avec Twitter était de... c'est un peu la place publique numérique, et il est important qu'il y ait à la fois la réalité et la perception de la confiance pour un large éventail de points de vue. Et il y avait beaucoup de censure en cours, et nous en avons en quelque sorte découvert beaucoup avec les fichiers Twitter, y compris beaucoup de censure dirigée par le gouvernement, qui... vous savez... C'est...Je veux dire, il semble que ce doit être une violation constitutionnelle, ce qui se passait là-bas. Donc, et je peux... puisque je suis un utilisateur passionné de Twitter, je peux détecter que quelque chose ne va pas ici. Et c'est vraiment pour ça que j'ai fait l'acquisition. Ce n'était pas parce que je pensais que c'était un moyen facile de gagner de l'argent ou quelque chose comme ça. C'est... être mairede la ville de Twitter, de la ville de Tweet, ou quoi que ce soit, c'est vraiment comme s'il y avait beaucoup de flèches pointées vers vous, comme, volant vers vous.

BILL : Oui, bien sûr. Mais tu sembles bien gérer ça. J'espère que tu vas le faire. Parce que, écoutez, je veux dire, les génies vont parfois être un peu excentriques, mais votre cœur est toujours au bon endroit. Tu essayais de réparer ce monde, et, écoute, je pourrais te parler pour toujours. Nous ne pouvons pas aujourd'hui. J'aimerais me défoncer avec toi. Je connais un super endroit pour le faire. Mais je ne peux pas te dire à quel point je t'apprécie. Je sais que vous avez beaucoup de choix et d'endroits où vous pouvez aller. Merci, Elon Musk, Mesdames et Messieurs. Très bien, je te verrai bientôt, Elon. Merci.

French transcription subtitles:

0
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,100
Mon premier invité est l'homme qui a fait des voitures électriques une chose,

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00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:06,240
et travaille actuellement au perfectionnement de fusées réutilisables,

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voyage dans l'espace, connectant le cerveau humain directement aux ordinateurs,

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relier les villes avec des trains à grande vitesse électromagnétiques,

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00:00:12,660 --> 00:00:15,740
le système satellite Starlink qui est si important pour la guerre en Ukraine,

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puis mardi,

6
00:00:18,940 --> 00:00:21,260
il va travailler sur ce truc de tunnel sur la circulation.

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Il tweete aussi beaucoup.

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Elon Musk, juste ici.

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Regarde toi.

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Ouah.

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Ai-je compris l'ordre complet des choses que vous faites en une journée là-bas ?

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Quand je lisais là-bas,

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J'ai omis le truc du tunnel à la fin.

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Travaillez-vous sur toutes ces choses ?

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Oui, j'ai beaucoup d'emplois.

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Faites-vous toutes ces choses tous les jours ?

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Travaillez-vous sur chacun d'eux en une seule journée ?

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Non.

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Mais j'ai une longue journée de travail.

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Ouais,

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donc je travaille beaucoup.

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Eh bien, je suis tellement ravi que tu sois là,

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parce que nous faisons une émission où nous parlons des changements qui se produisent dans le monde,

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mais nous ne faisons que parler.

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Il y a très peu de gens qui font réellement changer les choses.

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Vous êtes une de ces personnes.

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Probablement.

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Tu sais,

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Je veux juste dire que j'aime ce public.

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Eh bien, vous êtes un gars sympathique.

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Merci. Je veux dire,

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ils vous attaquent beaucoup.

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Ils font.

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Et tu as l'air d'en rire,

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que je trouve fantastique.

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J'aime que tu aies le sens de l'humour,

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parce qu'un mec aussi important que toi qui fait

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les changements pourraient utiliser vos pouvoirs pour le mal et non pour le bien.

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Le fait que...

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Ouais, absolument.

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Vous pourriez.

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Bien sûr.

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Ouais, je ne les ai jamais utilisés pour le mal.

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Non je sais.

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Mais la façon dont je le sais, c'est parce que vous avez le sens de l'humour.

46
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Ouais.

47
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Vraiment.

48
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Je jure que oui.

49
00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:05,380
Oui, tu aimes rire.

50
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Vous aimez être drôle.

51
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Je veux dire, je me tue.

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Droite.

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Ouais.

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Tu sais,

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JE...

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Contrairement à quelqu'un comme Zuckerberg,

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dont je ne suis même pas sûr qu'il soit un vrai garçon.

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Ouais.

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00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,360
En fait, j'aime la comédie,

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et je vais, vous savez, comme...

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Il y a de nombreuses années, j'étais en fait dans le public ici

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et regardé votre émission.

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Oh vraiment?

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Je suis donc un admirateur de longue date de votre émission.

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Tant pis,

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merci.

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JE...

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JE...

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Permettez-moi de vous dire que vous êtes un génie.

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D'accord.

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Donc...

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Mais ça a toujours été mon point de vue,

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est-ce...

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00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:45,840
J'étais étudiant en histoire,

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et quand tu étudies l'histoire,

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ce que tu réalises c'est que,

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00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:50,200
vous savez, il y a la théorie du grand homme,

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et ils parlent des rois

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et princes et reines et présidents.

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Ce sont vraiment les gens de la technologie qui changent le monde.

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Ce sont les gens qui distribuent les cartes,

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que ce soit le feu ou l'électricité,

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en bien ou en mal,

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ou l'égreneuse de coton ou l'iPhone

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ou la bombe atomique.

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Ce sont les cartes,

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et le reste d'entre nous juste jouer.

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Êtes-vous d'accord avec cette évaluation?

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Je pense que la technologie est la chose qui cause ces grands changements dans la civilisation.

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Donc, évidemment, vous avez des choses comme,

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00:03:23,940 --> 00:03:24,980
disons, la presse Gutenberg,

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avant laquelle il était très difficile de se procurer des livres.

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Ils étaient très rares.

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Même si vous aviez soif de connaissances,

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vous ne pouviez vraiment rien y faire,

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car il y avait très peu de livres à lire.

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Donc...

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Et Internet est quelque chose

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au-delà de la presse Gutenberg, je pense.

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Mais, tu sais, c'est...

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00:03:43,540 --> 00:03:46,500
Quand j'ai vu Internet pour la première fois voir le jour

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de manière à ce que le grand public puisse l'utiliser,

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c'était comme si l'humanité dans son ensemble était...

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développer un système nerveux.

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Ainsi, auparavant, la façon dont l'information voyageait

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serait par osmose,

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d'une personne à l'autre,

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ou une personne en appelle une autre.

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Mais...

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L'accès à l'information était très limité.

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Maintenant, avec Internet,

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c'est comme avoir un système nerveux.

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C'est comme si n'importe quelle partie de l'humanité avait accès

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à presque toutes les informations de l'humanité.

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Hmm. Comme, vous pourriez être au milieu de la jungle amazonienne,

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avec, disons, un terminal Starlink, et avoir accès à plus d'informations

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00:04:24,060 --> 00:04:27,040
que le président l'a fait en 1980. C'est vrai.

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Eh bien, n'importe quoi sur votre téléphone.

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Tout.

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00:04:30,340 --> 00:04:30,920
Est...

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Ouais.

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D'accord.

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00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,040
Donc, vous êtes l'un de ces revendeurs,

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00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:36,500
ces gens qui distribuent les cartes et vous les envoient.

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00:04:36,500 --> 00:04:37,120
Je distribue des noms,

126
00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:39,340
aussi. Oui, vous le faites.

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00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:40,260
Quelques,

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00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,320
euh... euh...

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Donc...

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Donc...

131
00:04:50,540 --> 00:04:51,820
Donc, je pense que beaucoup de gens ont pensé,

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00:04:51,820 --> 00:04:52,440
quand vous avez acheté Twitter,

133
00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:52,800
que c'est une façon bizarre de faire les choses. Lorsque vous avez acheté Twitter,

134
00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:54,500
que c'est une sorte de valeur aberrante.

135
00:04:54,740 --> 00:04:55,300
Comme, comment ça...

136
00:04:55,300 --> 00:04:57,880
Qu'est-ce qui ne cadre pas avec ces autres choses que vous faites ?

137
00:04:57,940 --> 00:04:59,260
Je n'ai jamais pensé ça.

138
00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,900
Parce que je pense que vous avez affaire à de gros problèmes de civilisation

139
00:05:02,900 --> 00:05:04,860
et des problèmes, et je...

140
00:05:04,860 --> 00:05:05,860
était juste sur votre page.

141
00:05:06,060 --> 00:05:07,360
Je pense que Twitter en fait partie.

142
00:05:07,540 --> 00:05:10,540
Je veux dire, vous avez parlé de ce virus de l'esprit éveillé.

143
00:05:10,540 --> 00:05:10,880
Oui.

144
00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,720
En termes vraiment apocalyptiques.

145
00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:14,520
Je ne sais pas...

146
00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,080
Vous devriez expliquer pourquoi vous pensez que ce n'est pas une hyperbole

147
00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:20,160
dire des choses comme si ça poussait la civilisation vers le suicide.

148
00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,400
Tout d'abord, qu'est-ce que le virus de l'esprit éveillé ?

149
00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:24,300
Et si nous ne traitons pas cela,

150
00:05:24,420 --> 00:05:25,600
rien d'autre ne peut être fait.

151
00:05:25,700 --> 00:05:27,180
Dis-moi pourquoi tu penses ça.

152
00:05:28,140 --> 00:05:28,360
Ouais.

153
00:05:29,020 --> 00:05:30,500
Donc...

154
00:05:30,500 --> 00:05:34,800
Je pense que nous devons être très prudents face à tout ce qui est anti-méritocratique.

155
00:05:35,740 --> 00:05:38,880
Et tout ce qui est...

156
00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,560
Cela se traduit par la suppression de la liberté d'expression.

157
00:05:42,900 --> 00:05:43,280
Donc,

158
00:05:43,780 --> 00:05:46,140
vous savez, ce sont deux des aspects du virus de l'esprit éveillé qui, à mon avis, sont très dangereux.

159
00:05:46,140 --> 00:05:49,400
C'est que c'est souvent anti-méritocratique.

160
00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:51,640
Vous ne pouvez pas remettre les choses en question.

161
00:05:52,700 --> 00:05:53,940
Même le questionnement est mauvais.

162
00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,240
Donc tu sais,

163
00:05:57,740 --> 00:06:00,220
une autre façon de...

164
00:06:00,220 --> 00:06:02,400
Presque anonyme serait annuler la culture.

165
00:06:02,580 --> 00:06:04,320
Et évidemment, les gens ont essayé de vous annuler à plusieurs reprises.

166
00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:05,060
Plusieurs fois.

167
00:06:05,060 --> 00:06:05,300
Ouais.

168
00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:05,780
Je veux dire...

169
00:06:05,780 --> 00:06:06,360
Toutes les semaines.

170
00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:06,940
Ouais.

171
00:06:07,860 --> 00:06:09,660
De gauche à droite.

172
00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:11,080
Je l'ai eu des deux côtés.

173
00:06:11,540 --> 00:06:11,860
Ouais.

174
00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:12,620
Et c'est intéressant.

175
00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:13,940
Toi et moi sommes tous les deux,

176
00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:16,740
comme, dans ce petit groupe de personnes. Peut-être que c'est un plus grand groupe maintenant.

177
00:06:17,060 --> 00:06:19,000
Ouais. Qu'on appelle conservateur,

178
00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:20,460
qui n'ont pas vraiment changé.

179
00:06:20,580 --> 00:06:22,620
Je ne vous considère pas comme un conservateur.

180
00:06:22,700 --> 00:06:23,900
Je certainement...

181
00:06:23,900 --> 00:06:25,120
Ouais, comme...

182
00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,340
Je me considère au moins comme un modéré.

183
00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:29,460
Tu sais, alors...

184
00:06:29,460 --> 00:06:30,680
Je veux dire...

185
00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:32,320
Du moins, comme...

186
00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,640
J'ai dépensé une énorme quantité de mon énergie vitale

187
00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:38,020
la construction d'énergie durable, vous savez, les véhicules électriques,

188
00:06:38,340 --> 00:06:40,000
et des batteries, et solaire et tout,

189
00:06:40,280 --> 00:06:41,300
pour aider à sauver l'environnement.

190
00:06:41,420 --> 00:06:43,480
Ce n'est pas un... Ce n'est pas un...

191
00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:44,360
Non non,

192
00:06:44,780 --> 00:06:45,040
Non.

193
00:06:48,740 --> 00:06:49,920
Pas tout à fait à droite.

194
00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,460
Non, tu as dessiné ce diagramme une fois,

195
00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:54,300
où vous êtes ici.

196
00:06:54,540 --> 00:06:55,600
J'étais lié à ça.

197
00:06:55,780 --> 00:06:57,260
Et, comme, le monde a changé.

198
00:06:57,280 --> 00:06:57,620
Droite.

199
00:06:57,620 --> 00:06:58,660
Je ressens la même chose.

200
00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,340
J'ai l'impression que très souvent, l'éveil ne s'appuie pas sur le libéralisme.

201
00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:03,760
C'est le contraire du libéralisme.

202
00:07:03,900 --> 00:07:04,220
Je peux le mentionner.

203
00:07:04,220 --> 00:07:04,960
Oui, exactement.

204
00:07:05,060 --> 00:07:06,640
Beaucoup d'exemples où c'est le contraire,

205
00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:07,820
y compris la liberté d'expression.

206
00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:10,720
La liberté d'expression est en fait extrêmement importante.

207
00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:14,100
Et c'est bizarre que nous en soyons arrivés à ce point où,

208
00:07:14,100 --> 00:07:17,260
comme, la liberté d'expression était autrefois une valeur de gauche ou libérale.

209
00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,800
Et pourtant nous voyons de,

210
00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:22,560
vous savez, les guillemets restants,

211
00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:25,460
un désir de censurer réellement.

212
00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,200
Et cela semble fou.

213
00:07:29,300 --> 00:07:36,920
Je veux dire, je pense que nous devrions être extrêmement préoccupés par tout ce qui sape le premier amendement.

214
00:07:37,060 --> 00:07:38,340
Il y a une raison pour le premier amendement.

215
00:07:38,340 --> 00:07:41,720
Le premier amendement, c'est parce que les gens venaient de pays

216
00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:43,540
où ils ne pouvaient pas parler librement

217
00:07:43,540 --> 00:07:47,800
et où dire certaines choses vous ferait jeter en prison.

218
00:07:48,460 --> 00:07:48,940
Et ils étaient comme,

219
00:07:48,980 --> 00:07:50,060
Eh bien, nous ne voulons pas de cela ici.

220
00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:51,320
Et d'ailleurs,

221
00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:52,760
dans de nombreuses parties du monde,

222
00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,760
y compris des parties du monde que les gens pourraient penser être relativement similaires aux États-Unis,

223
00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:00,540
les lois sur la parole sont draconiennes.

224
00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:02,340
L'Angleterre est bien différente.

225
00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:06,120
Je ne nommerai aucun pays, mais...

226
00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:06,680
Angleterre.

227
00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:08,380
Pourquoi les protégeons-nous ?

228
00:08:08,460 --> 00:08:09,520
Ils n'ont pas de premier amendement.

229
00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:12,760
Il est très facile de prouver la diffamation en Angleterre.

230
00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:13,480
Alors qu'ici c'est presque...

231
00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:14,140
J'aime l'Angleterre.

232
00:08:14,780 --> 00:08:14,840
Mais...

233
00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:15,400
Oui toi aussi.

234
00:08:15,780 --> 00:08:17,960
Mais je ne voudrais pas dire la mauvaise chose.

235
00:08:18,620 --> 00:08:19,080
Oui.

236
00:08:19,460 --> 00:08:20,720
Vous pourriez être poursuivi plus facilement.

237
00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:22,880
Je veux dire, il y a des lois en France.

238
00:08:23,020 --> 00:08:24,420
Je pense que si vous niez l'Holocauste,

239
00:08:24,420 --> 00:08:26,460
ce que je trouve odieux,

240
00:08:26,540 --> 00:08:28,600
mais je pense aussi que cela devrait faire partie de la liberté d'expression,

241
00:08:29,140 --> 00:08:30,680
vous pouvez être jeté en prison.

242
00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:31,380
D'accord,

243
00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:32,380
donc ça...

244
00:08:32,380 --> 00:08:34,420
Je ne saurais trop insister là-dessus.

245
00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:36,280
Nous devons...

246
00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:38,140
Nous devons protéger la liberté d'expression.

247
00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:40,180
Et la liberté d'expression ne compte que...

248
00:08:40,180 --> 00:08:42,520
C'est seulement pertinent quand c'est quelqu'un que tu n'aimes pas

249
00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:44,000
dire quelque chose que vous n'aimez pas.

250
00:08:44,860 --> 00:08:47,160
Parce qu'évidemment, le discours que tu aimes, c'est...

251
00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:47,500
Oui.

252
00:08:47,500 --> 00:08:48,120
Vous savez, c'est facile.

253
00:08:48,780 --> 00:08:50,680
Alors c'est...

254
00:08:50,680 --> 00:08:51,800
Et son...

255
00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:52,660
Le truc avec la censure c'est que,

256
00:08:52,660 --> 00:08:55,200
pour ceux qui le défendraient,

257
00:08:55,740 --> 00:08:58,260
rappelez-vous simplement qu'à un moment donné, cela vous reviendra.

258
00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:03,780
APPLAUDISSEMENTS Alors...

259
00:09:03,780 --> 00:09:05,760
Ce...

260
00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:09,060
virus de l'esprit réveillé, comment a-t-il commencé ?

261
00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:09,960
Était-ce des chauves-souris ?

262
00:09:10,100 --> 00:09:11,040
Était-ce un...

263
00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:11,380
Ouais.

264
00:09:11,380 --> 00:09:12,680
Évadez-vous d'un laboratoire?

265
00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,120
Je veux dire, quelle est votre évaluation de...

266
00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:16,540
Parce que c'est assez récent.

267
00:09:17,340 --> 00:09:18,160
Pourquoi...

268
00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:19,140
Comment a-t-il commencé et pourquoi ?

269
00:09:19,140 --> 00:09:24,160
J'essayais de comprendre d'où ça venait.

270
00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:25,820
Je pense que ça fait longtemps que ça se prépare,

271
00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:28,440
en cela c'est...

272
00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:31,040
Je pense que ça dure depuis un moment.

273
00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:33,760
Il...

274
00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:35,760
Et...

275
00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:40,840
La quantité d'endoctrinement qui se passe dans les écoles et les universités est,

276
00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:42,520
Je pense, bien au-delà de ce que les parents réalisent.

277
00:09:44,140 --> 00:09:46,120
Et je ne m'en suis rendu compte qu'un peu tard.

278
00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:55,120
L'expérience que nous avons eue au lycée et au collège n'est pas celle que vivent les enfants d'aujourd'hui.

279
00:09:56,140 --> 00:09:58,260
Et n'a pas été pour, je ne sais pas,

280
00:09:58,980 --> 00:10:00,520
10 ans, peut-être 20 ans.

281
00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:02,640
Donc...

282
00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,360
Les parents eux-mêmes sont-ils aussi une grande partie du problème ?

283
00:10:06,100 --> 00:10:06,500
Ils...

284
00:10:06,500 --> 00:10:06,820
Bien,

285
00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:09,900
Je suppose que dans certains cas, les parents...

286
00:10:09,900 --> 00:10:10,640
Mais je pense, genre,

287
00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:11,920
le...

288
00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,620
Les parents ne sont généralement pas au courant de ce qu'on enseigne à leurs enfants.

289
00:10:14,860 --> 00:10:15,100
Ou ce qu'on ne leur enseigne pas.

290
00:10:15,100 --> 00:10:19,680
Ils laissent les enfants penser qu'ils sont égaux.

291
00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:21,180
Je veux dire...

292
00:10:21,180 --> 00:10:24,340
Ouais, laissez-moi vous donner un exemple qu'un homme juste m'a dit,

293
00:10:24,740 --> 00:10:27,820
où, vous savez, ses filles vont à l'université en...

294
00:10:27,820 --> 00:10:29,720
Désolé, aller au lycée dans la Bay Area.

295
00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:31,820
Et...

296
00:10:31,820 --> 00:10:33,180
Et il leur demandait,

297
00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:36,080
comme, eh bien, qui sont les...

298
00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,380
Vous savez, qui sont les premiers présidents des États-Unis ?

299
00:10:38,900 --> 00:10:40,360
Ils pourraient nommer Washington,

300
00:10:40,660 --> 00:10:41,180
mais...

301
00:10:41,180 --> 00:10:42,020
Et j'ai dit, eh bien, que savez-vous de lui ?

302
00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:42,920
Eh bien, il était propriétaire d'esclaves.

303
00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:43,580
Quoi d'autre?

304
00:10:43,580 --> 00:10:45,200
Droite. Exactement. Rien.

305
00:10:46,340 --> 00:10:46,540
Droite.

306
00:10:46,580 --> 00:10:47,960
Genre, d'accord, c'est...

307
00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:49,720
Peut-être devriez-vous en savoir plus que cela.

308
00:10:50,180 --> 00:10:50,500
Tu sais?

309
00:10:50,820 --> 00:10:51,120
Ouais.

310
00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:51,700
Ouais.

311
00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,180
Et c'est le virus Waltz-Mind.

312
00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:55,460
Exactement. Ouais.

313
00:10:55,980 --> 00:10:56,080
Ouais.

314
00:10:57,180 --> 00:10:57,880
Exactement.

315
00:10:58,160 --> 00:10:59,600
C'est comme...

316
00:10:59,600 --> 00:10:59,740
Tu sais,

317
00:11:00,900 --> 00:11:01,940
le...

318
00:11:01,940 --> 00:11:05,160
Vous savez, l'esclavage est évidemment une horrible institution,

319
00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,720
mais nous devrions tout de même en savoir plus sur George Washington que cela.

320
00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:09,320
Et d'ailleurs,

321
00:11:09,340 --> 00:11:11,100
celle qui était pratiquée dans le monde entier,

322
00:11:11,380 --> 00:11:14,020
pour toujours, depuis le commencement des temps, par chaque race,

323
00:11:14,540 --> 00:11:15,380
y compris les personnes de couleur.

324
00:11:15,540 --> 00:11:16,440
Je suis désolé de vous le dire.

325
00:11:16,680 --> 00:11:17,800
C'est énorme dans la Bible.

326
00:11:18,260 --> 00:11:18,540
Absolument.

327
00:11:19,020 --> 00:11:19,220
Donc...

328
00:11:19,220 --> 00:11:19,800
La Bible adore ça.

329
00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:20,840
Étaient...

330
00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:21,940
JE...

331
00:11:21,940 --> 00:11:22,340
Vraiment?

332
00:11:22,340 --> 00:11:22,660
Oui.

333
00:11:22,820 --> 00:11:24,500
Ils sont assez stricts sur,

334
00:11:24,780 --> 00:11:26,780
comme, vous savez, ne prenez pas l'esclave de quelqu'un d'autre dans ce genre de chose.

335
00:11:26,780 --> 00:11:28,040
D'accord, mais personne ne dit jamais,

336
00:11:28,380 --> 00:11:29,020
ne le faites pas.

337
00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:29,680
Ils ne le font pas.

338
00:11:29,700 --> 00:11:30,500
Ils ne le font pas.

339
00:11:30,680 --> 00:11:32,900
À aucun moment, il n'est dit que l'esclavage est mauvais dans la Bible.

340
00:11:33,300 --> 00:11:33,620
Non non.

341
00:11:34,020 --> 00:11:35,700
Non. Ils ne le condamnent pas du tout.

342
00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:37,080
Ils ont juste...

343
00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:37,220
Donc...

344
00:11:37,220 --> 00:11:38,240
Alors c'est...

345
00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:39,800
Mais Twitter ne va pas mal,

346
00:11:39,940 --> 00:11:40,040
droite?

347
00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:44,620
Je veux dire, j'ai vu aujourd'hui que Tucker Carlson a récemment été viré.

348
00:11:44,680 --> 00:11:46,460
Tu étais juste dans son émission et il a perdu son emploi,

349
00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:47,600
donc j'espère que ce n'est pas un ancien.

350
00:11:48,560 --> 00:11:49,880
Ouais. Ouais. Mais...

351
00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:50,800
Espérons, ouais.

352
00:11:50,940 --> 00:11:52,440
Quoi, tu es l'ange de la mort ?

353
00:11:52,700 --> 00:11:53,480
Oui, non, exactement.

354
00:11:53,980 --> 00:11:56,280
Je ne suis pas la Mary typhoïde des talk-shows.

355
00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:57,980
Euh...

356
00:11:57,980 --> 00:11:58,300
Mais son...

357
00:11:58,300 --> 00:12:00,220
Pour une raison quelconque, les gens se font simplement virer après cela.

358
00:12:00,220 --> 00:12:04,280
Mais son coup de gueule hier ou aujourd'hui sur Twitter...

359
00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:05,300
Je pense que c'était hier ou quelque chose comme ça.

360
00:12:05,620 --> 00:12:05,840
Ou il y a quelques jours.

361
00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:09,580
Il a fait plus que n'importe quel monologue d'information par câble.

362
00:12:09,580 --> 00:12:09,980
Ouais.

363
00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:10,680
Ou quelque chose comme ça.

364
00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:11,340
Est-ce correct?

365
00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:12,100
Bien,

366
00:12:12,420 --> 00:12:13,400
Twitter a une audience énorme.

367
00:12:13,500 --> 00:12:17,380
Il y a donc 250 millions de personnes qui passent en moyenne une demi-heure par jour sur Twitter.

368
00:12:17,420 --> 00:12:20,500
Cela représente environ 120 à 130 millions d'heures d'utilisation par jour,

369
00:12:20,500 --> 00:12:21,300
et ça augmente.

370
00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:24,580
Alors... euh...

371
00:12:24,580 --> 00:12:25,760
Nous n'avons rien fait.

372
00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:27,860
Pour être clair, nous n'avons rien fait de spécial.

373
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,100
J'ai appris par la suite qu'il avait posté quelque chose sur Twitter.

374
00:12:32,020 --> 00:12:35,240
Mm. C'est donc juste que Twitter attire beaucoup l'attention des gens.

375
00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:35,740
Euh,

376
00:12:36,100 --> 00:12:36,440
donc...

377
00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:38,760
Et ce sont généralement les gens qui le sont,

378
00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:39,700
euh...

379
00:12:39,700 --> 00:12:42,540
Qui lit beaucoup ou qui s'intéresse à l'actualité,

380
00:12:42,580 --> 00:12:44,840
euh, et, euh...

381
00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:46,160
Sont généralement assez influents.

382
00:12:46,740 --> 00:12:47,220
Donc...

383
00:12:47,220 --> 00:12:49,580
Mais la plupart des gens qui tweetent sont les mêmes,

384
00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:49,800
droite?

385
00:12:49,820 --> 00:12:51,600
Je veux dire, les gens qui tweetent

386
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:52,800
sont censés simplement le lire.

387
00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:53,220
Ouais.

388
00:12:53,460 --> 00:12:54,500
J'ai l'impression que c'est...

389
00:12:54,500 --> 00:12:55,540
J'ai lu cela plusieurs fois.

390
00:12:55,700 --> 00:12:58,880
C'est un très petit pourcentage des personnes sur Twitter,

391
00:12:58,980 --> 00:12:59,840
et il semble que...

392
00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:00,140
Ouais.

393
00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:02,040
Tu vois, voilà pourquoi je ne tweete plus,

394
00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:03,780
parce que vous êtes peut-être le maire de Tweet Town maintenant.

395
00:13:03,780 --> 00:13:04,700
Ouais.

396
00:13:04,940 --> 00:13:05,700
Maire de Tweet Town.

397
00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:07,180
Nous obtenons un plafond avec cela.

398
00:13:07,180 --> 00:13:08,380
Et je suis content...

399
00:13:08,380 --> 00:13:10,900
Et j'aime que le maire aime mes blagues.

400
00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:12,860
Mais la raison pour laquelle je ne le fais plus

401
00:13:12,860 --> 00:13:16,640
c'est parce que la foule de filles méchantes est toujours là.

402
00:13:17,020 --> 00:13:18,800
Et cela n'a pas changé.

403
00:13:18,860 --> 00:13:21,800
C'est trop facile d'être annulé.

404
00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:25,680
Et je ne sais même pas ce qui les énerve.

405
00:13:25,740 --> 00:13:27,140
Ils sont tellement fous, ces enfants.

406
00:13:27,580 --> 00:13:30,080
J'ai l'impression de marcher sur un toit avec un bandeau sur les yeux.

407
00:13:30,300 --> 00:13:31,580
Je pourrais tomber à tout moment.

408
00:13:31,580 --> 00:13:34,020
C'était la chose la plus anodine,

409
00:13:34,060 --> 00:13:37,080
mais c'est comme, vous savez, j'ai dit que George Washington était un grand président.

410
00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:38,520
Eh bien, comment osez-vous.

411
00:13:38,780 --> 00:13:39,040
Ouais.

412
00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:39,860
Oui exactement.

413
00:13:39,900 --> 00:13:40,320
j'avais des défauts,

414
00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:41,460
mais...

415
00:13:41,460 --> 00:13:42,500
Alors, comment résoudre ce problème,

416
00:13:42,500 --> 00:13:46,260
Monsieur le Maire ? ... ont contribué à la création des États-Unis, donc...

417
00:13:46,260 --> 00:13:47,440
Ouais. Bien,

418
00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:48,380
Tu dois dire,

419
00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:49,680
comme, qu'est-ce que signifie annulé?

420
00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,260
Tu sais, je veux dire, oui, les gens t'attaquent sur Twitter,

421
00:13:52,260 --> 00:13:54,840
c'est une chose, mais franchement, ça va juste augmenter l'engagement.

422
00:13:55,460 --> 00:13:56,980
Donc je l'ignorerais simplement.

423
00:13:57,520 --> 00:13:58,960
Eh bien, c'est facile pour vous,

424
00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:00,560
parce qu'ils ne peuvent pas vous enlever votre emploi.

425
00:14:00,560 --> 00:14:03,580
Ou l'un de vos dix emplois principaux,

426
00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:04,820
mais ils pourraient prendre le mien,

427
00:14:04,820 --> 00:14:05,600
et ils l'ont fait une fois,

428
00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:06,200
d'ailleurs.

429
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:06,820
Ouais.

430
00:14:07,020 --> 00:14:07,480
D'accord, eh bien, juste.

431
00:14:07,580 --> 00:14:09,400
Tu sais, j'ai été littéralement annulé.

432
00:14:09,900 --> 00:14:10,280
Littéralement annulé ?

433
00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:12,600
Ouais, je veux dire, comme, le spectacle est annulé.

434
00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:13,980
C'est comme...

435
00:14:13,980 --> 00:14:15,680
OK, donc tu étais au Congrès,

436
00:14:16,140 --> 00:14:17,200
au Congrès l'autre jour,

437
00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:18,980
parler avec Chuck Schumer de l'IA.

438
00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:20,180
ça m'intéresse beaucoup,

439
00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:21,780
parce que vous êtes dessus depuis des années.

440
00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:23,940
J'ai toujours pensé que tu avais raison à ce sujet.

441
00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:25,700
Je pense que tu as raison sur presque tout.

442
00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:28,300
Je veux dire, faisons plus de bébés et élevons-les sur Mars.

443
00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:29,100
Je ne comprends pas, mais d'accord.

444
00:14:29,100 --> 00:14:29,860
Bien,

445
00:14:30,900 --> 00:14:32,860
Je pense juste que nous devrions être prudents

446
00:14:32,860 --> 00:14:35,200
sur le déclin civilisationnel avec...

447
00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:38,260
Et nous avons des taux de natalité en chute libre dans la plupart des endroits,

448
00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:38,520
Ouais.

449
00:14:38,740 --> 00:14:39,100
Droite.

450
00:14:39,220 --> 00:14:41,300
Et aussi des ressources en chute libre.

451
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:43,300
Non, non, les ressources iront bien.

452
00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:44,940
Mais ils ne vont pas bien...

453
00:14:44,940 --> 00:14:45,940
Ils ne vont pas bien maintenant.

454
00:14:46,820 --> 00:14:48,580
Écoutez, je ne suggère pas la complaisance.

455
00:14:49,380 --> 00:14:51,520
Nous voulons passer à une économie énergétique durable

456
00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:52,580
aussi vite que possible,

457
00:14:52,820 --> 00:14:56,380
mais nous ne sommes pas en danger d'effondrement des ressources.

458
00:14:56,940 --> 00:14:58,440
Mais beaucoup de gens n'ont pas assez de nourriture ou d'eau.

459
00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:00,540
Eau.

460
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:02,460
Nous allons manquer d'eau.

461
00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:04,260
Ils manquent de sable.

462
00:15:04,700 --> 00:15:04,740
Sable.

463
00:15:04,740 --> 00:15:07,640
Non, la Terre est composée à 70 % d'eau en surface.

464
00:15:08,140 --> 00:15:09,400
Mais tu ne peux pas boire ça.

465
00:15:10,420 --> 00:15:12,080
Le dessalement est absurdement bon marché.

466
00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:13,760
Pourquoi ne pas le faire, alors ?

467
00:15:14,380 --> 00:15:14,900
Nous faisons...

468
00:15:14,900 --> 00:15:15,280
C'est fait.

469
00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:16,280
Vous avez beaucoup de temps libre.

470
00:15:16,500 --> 00:15:16,960
C'est fait.

471
00:15:17,260 --> 00:15:19,320
Il y a beaucoup de dessalement fait.

472
00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:20,080
Ok mais...

473
00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:20,740
Il y a beaucoup d'eau.

474
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:21,420
Ce n'est pas un problème.

475
00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:21,980
Je veux être clair.

476
00:15:22,100 --> 00:15:22,540
D'accord.

477
00:15:22,580 --> 00:15:24,240
Alors, mais parlons de l'IA, parce que,

478
00:15:24,580 --> 00:15:25,420
comme, vous étiez sur ce conseil il y a 10 ans quand personne d'autre ne l'était.

479
00:15:25,420 --> 00:15:28,320
Et j'ai toujours pensé,

480
00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:28,980
il a raison.

481
00:15:29,140 --> 00:15:29,400
Pourquoi?

482
00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:30,860
Parce que j'ai vu trop de films.

483
00:15:31,260 --> 00:15:32,340
Tout ce qui se passe dans les films,

484
00:15:32,340 --> 00:15:33,600
ça se passe dans la vraie vie.

485
00:15:34,300 --> 00:15:36,660
Et, tu sais, si tu fais des choses

486
00:15:36,660 --> 00:15:38,080
qui sont bien plus intelligents que toi,

487
00:15:38,580 --> 00:15:40,280
pourquoi ne deviendraient-ils pas vos suzerains ?

488
00:15:40,620 --> 00:15:42,280
Alors qu'avez-vous dit à Chuck Schumer,

489
00:15:42,340 --> 00:15:43,340
et que faisons-nous à ce sujet?

490
00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,200
Je sais que tu veux faire une pause dans l'IA,

491
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,240
car rien qu'au cours des six derniers mois avec ChatGPT,

492
00:15:48,540 --> 00:15:49,920
qui venait d'une entreprise que vous avez créée...

493
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:55,120
Oui. Bien,

494
00:15:55,620 --> 00:15:58,640
Je veux dire, un de mes amis a une sorte de modification du rasoir d'Occam.

495
00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:01,620
Vous savez, au lieu que la chose la plus simple soit la plus probable,

496
00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,020
comme, le résultat le plus ironique est le plus probable.

497
00:16:05,700 --> 00:16:06,040
Droite.

498
00:16:06,380 --> 00:16:06,760
Oui.

499
00:16:07,460 --> 00:16:09,880
Donc, en ce qui concerne l'IA,

500
00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:10,900
Je pense juste que nous devrions être...

501
00:16:10,900 --> 00:16:24,500
Nous devrions avoir une sorte de surveillance réglementaire. Donc, vous savez, pour tout ce qui est un danger pour le public, si c'est une sorte d'avion, ou quelque chose comme ça, nous avons une surveillance réglementaire, comme un arbitre,

502
00:16:25,100 --> 00:16:27,840
essentiellement, et s'assurer que les entreprises ne lésinent pas.

503
00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,520
Donc je pense que depuis...

504
00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:35,560
Si l'on convient que l'IA est un risque potentiel pour le public,

505
00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:37,080
alors il devrait y avoir un organisme de réglementation qui supervise ce que font les entreprises,

506
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:49,480
afin qu'ils ne coupent pas les coins ronds. Et je pense que c'est un bon point. Je pense que c'est un bon point. Je pense que c'est un bon point. Et si nous ne faisons rien...

507
00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:51,700
Exposez-moi un scénario dans les deux suivants,

508
00:16:51,700 --> 00:16:53,520
cinq, dix ans, si rien n'est fait,

509
00:16:53,580 --> 00:16:55,360
parce qu'on est très doué pour ne rien faire,

510
00:16:55,700 --> 00:16:57,700
surtout quand il s'agit de profit,

511
00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,380
et c'est maintenant un gros moteur de profit pour les entreprises,

512
00:17:00,660 --> 00:17:02,700
ils voudront simplement rivaliser les uns avec les autres.

513
00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:03,060
Je veux dire, il y a des gens comme Ray Kurzweil,

514
00:17:03,060 --> 00:17:04,720
qui ne pense pas que ce soit un problème du tout. Et je pense que c'est un bon point. Je pense que c'est un bon point. Je pense que c'est un bon point. Je veux dire, il y a des gens comme Ray Kurzweil,

515
00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:06,420
qui ne pense pas que ce soit un problème du tout.

516
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:12,360
En fait, la prédiction de Ray Kurzweil pour la superintelligence artificielle est 2029.

517
00:17:12,540 --> 00:17:13,300
Il n'est pas loin.

518
00:17:13,980 --> 00:17:14,460
Droite.

519
00:17:14,700 --> 00:17:16,140
Mais il ne pense pas que ce soit un problème,

520
00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,140
alors que des gens comme toi et Bill Gates,

521
00:17:18,500 --> 00:17:21,480
et Stephen Hawking pensent que c'est un problème.

522
00:17:22,620 --> 00:17:23,160
Ouais, ça dépend.

523
00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:25,080
Si certaines personnes veulent vivre éternellement,

524
00:17:25,220 --> 00:17:26,740
ou pour une période de temps beaucoup plus longue,

525
00:17:26,860 --> 00:17:29,640
et ils voient l'IA comme le seul moyen de...

526
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:33,860
La superintelligence numérique est la seule chose qui peut comprendre comment les faire vivre pour toujours.

527
00:17:34,180 --> 00:17:35,720
Je pense que Kurzweil est dans cette catégorie.

528
00:17:36,060 --> 00:17:37,640
Il préférerait donc avoir l'IA,

529
00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:39,680
intelligence générale artificielle,

530
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:40,540
que pas,

531
00:17:41,020 --> 00:17:42,440
car il peut déterminer la longévité.

532
00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:45,060
Alors êtes-vous optimiste ?

533
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:50,480
J'ai lu dans votre article de Rolling Stone à l'époque que vous disiez que vous ne pouvez jamais être heureux si vous n'êtes pas amoureux.

534
00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:53,600
Eh bien, vous pouvez être à moitié heureux,

535
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:58,180
Je suppose. Je veux dire, il y a deux choses.

536
00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,020
Je pense être le plus heureux,

537
00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,320
si tu es heureux en amour et que tu aimes ton travail,

538
00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:09,820
alors vous serez, je pense, pleinement heureux si vous avez l'une de ces deux choses,

539
00:18:09,820 --> 00:18:11,060
vous serez à moitié heureux,

540
00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:12,180
vous savez, à peu près.

541
00:18:12,380 --> 00:18:16,940
J'ai l'impression que le thème de beaucoup de vos œuvres qui relient toutes ces choses différentes est la connexion.

542
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:19,460
Comme, vous voulez connecter les choses.

543
00:18:19,900 --> 00:18:21,680
Vous savez, vous voulez vous connecter sur le

544
00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:24,400
Hyperloop, et vous voulez le connecter à Mars,

545
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:26,220
et même Twitter.

546
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:26,800
Ou Connectez 4.

547
00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:29,000
Tu veux...

548
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:30,080
J'adore ce jeu.

549
00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:31,400
Quoi?

550
00:18:31,900 --> 00:18:37,240
Connect 4, vous savez, quand vous obtenez le...

551
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,300
Désolé, c'est une comédie, tu sais ?

552
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:42,160
Je vais mettre de la comédie là-dedans.

553
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:45,640
C'est dur pour toi,

554
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,340
parce que lorsque vous avez acheté Twitter,

555
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:50,660
tu fais un peu ce que tu as fait

556
00:18:50,660 --> 00:18:52,020
quand tu as pris le relais...

557
00:18:52,020 --> 00:18:52,960
quand vous avez lancé Tesla.

558
00:18:53,180 --> 00:18:54,360
Tu vivais à l'usine,

559
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:54,640
droite?

560
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:56,760
J'ai l'impression que c'est ta...

561
00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:57,680
c'est ton...

562
00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:58,840
votre modèle.

563
00:18:59,340 --> 00:19:00,700
Vous entrez dans cette chose,

564
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:01,580
et puis tu dois vivre

565
00:19:01,580 --> 00:19:03,140
à l'usine pour le faire fonctionner.

566
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:03,620
Ouais.

567
00:19:03,620 --> 00:19:04,720
Vous êtes de retour dans...

568
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:05,680
Vous avez déménagé au Texas,

569
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,580
puis vous êtes remonté à San Francisco à cause de Twitter.

570
00:19:08,940 --> 00:19:11,760
Je vivais dans la bibliothèque de Twitter pendant un moment,

571
00:19:12,220 --> 00:19:13,000
Oui.

572
00:19:13,460 --> 00:19:16,120
Mais je pense que les choses sont raisonnablement stabilisées en ce moment.

573
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,420
C'était juste sur la voie rapide de la faillite

574
00:19:19,420 --> 00:19:22,280
après l'acquisition, j'ai donc dû prendre des mesures drastiques

575
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:23,220
s'il n'y avait pas le choix.

576
00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:25,020
Je dis juste que c'est dur pour une femme.

577
00:19:25,020 --> 00:19:25,280
Ouais.

578
00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:27,600
Pour, comme, quand le gars vit à l'usine.

579
00:19:28,700 --> 00:19:29,220
Oui.

580
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,280
Cela pourrait être une pierre d'achoppement.

581
00:19:35,300 --> 00:19:35,780
Oui.

582
00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,500
Mais dans l'ensemble, avec, vous savez, mon souci avec Twitter

583
00:19:40,500 --> 00:19:41,800
était de...

584
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,060
c'est un peu la place de la ville numérique,

585
00:19:44,180 --> 00:19:48,800
et il est important qu'il y ait à la fois la réalité et la perception

586
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:53,000
de confiance pour un large éventail de points de vue.

587
00:19:55,180 --> 00:19:57,320
Et il y avait beaucoup de censure en cours,

588
00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:01,140
et nous avons en quelque sorte découvert beaucoup de cela avec les fichiers Twitter,

589
00:20:01,260 --> 00:20:03,380
y compris beaucoup de censure gouvernementale,

590
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:05,060
qui...

591
00:20:05,060 --> 00:20:09,180
APPLAUDISSEMENTS C'est...

592
00:20:09,180 --> 00:20:11,740
Je veux dire, il semble que cela doit être une violation constitutionnelle,

593
00:20:11,820 --> 00:20:12,640
ce qui se passait là-bas.

594
00:20:13,380 --> 00:20:15,180
Alors, et je peux...

595
00:20:15,180 --> 00:20:16,180
puisque je suis, genre, un utilisateur passionné de Twitter,

596
00:20:16,180 --> 00:20:17,280
Je peux détecter ça,

597
00:20:17,500 --> 00:20:18,600
comme, quelque chose ne va pas ici.

598
00:20:18,940 --> 00:20:22,220
Et c'est vraiment pour ça que j'ai fait l'acquisition.

599
00:20:22,340 --> 00:20:24,460
Ce n'était pas parce que je pensais que c'était un moyen facile de gagner de l'argent

600
00:20:24,460 --> 00:20:25,200
ou quelque chose comme ça.

601
00:20:26,340 --> 00:20:28,220
C'est...

602
00:20:28,220 --> 00:20:29,020
être maire de la ville de Twitter,

603
00:20:29,120 --> 00:20:30,060
Tweetez la ville, ou quoi que ce soit,

604
00:20:30,860 --> 00:20:34,160
c'est vraiment comme s'il y avait beaucoup de flèches pointées vers toi, genre,

605
00:20:34,500 --> 00:20:35,080
voler vers vous.

606
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:35,760
Oui bien sûr.

607
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:37,960
Mais tu sembles bien gérer ça.

608
00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:39,080
J'espère que tu vas le faire.

609
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:41,320
Parce que, regarde,

610
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,520
Je veux dire, les génies vont parfois être un peu excentriques,

611
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,040
mais ton coeur est toujours au bon endroit.

612
00:20:47,060 --> 00:20:48,800
Tu essayais de réparer ce monde,

613
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,520
et, regarde, je pourrais te parler pour toujours.

614
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:52,300
Nous ne pouvons pas aujourd'hui.

615
00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:53,440
J'aimerais me défoncer avec toi.

616
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:54,800
Je connais un super endroit pour le faire.

617
00:20:55,540 --> 00:20:57,560
Mais je ne peux pas te dire à quel point je t'apprécie.

618
00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:59,980
Je sais que vous avez beaucoup de choix et d'endroits où vous pouvez aller.

619
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:02,500
Merci, Elon Musk, Mesdames et Messieurs.

620
00:21:02,940 --> 00:21:04,500
Très bien, je te verrai bientôt, Elon.

621
00:21:18,820 --> 00:21:20,160
Merci.

Italian transcription text:

BILL: Il mio primo ospite è l'uomo che ha reso le auto elettriche una cosa, e attualmente sta lavorando al perfezionamento di razzi riutilizzabili, viaggi nello spazio, collegamento del cervello umano direttamente ai computer, collegamento delle città con treni proiettili elettromagnetici, il sistema satellitare Starlink che è così importante per la guerra in Ucraina, e poi martedì lavorerà su quella cosa del tunnel sul traffico. Inoltre twitta molto. Elon Musk, proprio qui. Guardati. Oh. Ho ricevuto l'ordine completo delle cose che fai in un giorno lì? Quando stavo leggendo lì, ho tralasciato la cosa del tunnel alla fine.

ELON: Sì, ho molti lavori.

BILL: Lavori su tutte queste cose? Fai tutte queste cose ogni giorno? Lavori su tutti in un solo giorno?

ELON: No. Ma ho una lunga giornata di lavoro. Sì, quindi lavoro molto.

BILL: Beh, sono così felice che tu sia qui, perché facciamo uno spettacolo in cui parliamo dei cambiamenti che avvengono nel mondo, ma parliamo e basta. Ci sono pochissime persone che realmente realizzano il cambiamento. Tu sei una di quelle persone. Probabilmente.

ELON: Sai, voglio solo dire che adoro questo pubblico.

BILL: Beh, sei un ragazzo simpatico.

ELON: Grazie.

BILL: Voglio dire, ti attaccano molto.

ELON: Lo fanno.

BILL: E sembri ridere, il che penso sia fantastico. Mi piace che tu abbia il senso dell'umorismo, perché un ragazzo importante come te che apporta cambiamenti potrebbe usare i tuoi poteri per il male e non per il bene. Il fatto che...

ELON: Sì, assolutamente.

BILL: Potresti.

ELON: Certo. Sì, non li ho mai usati per il male.

BILL: No, lo so. Ma io lo so perché hai il senso dell'umorismo.

ELON: Sì.

BILL: Davvero.

ELON: Giuro di sì.

BILL: Sì, ti piace ridere. Ti piace essere divertente.

ELON: Voglio dire, mi uccido.

BILL: Esatto. Sì. Sai, io... Al contrario di qualcuno come Zuckerberg, che non sono nemmeno sicuro sia un vero ragazzo.

ELON: Sì. In realtà amo la commedia, e lo farò, sai, come... Molti anni fa, ero tra il pubblico qui e guardai il tuo spettacolo.

BILL: Oh, davvero?

ELON: Quindi sono un ammiratore di lunga data del tuo programma.

BILL: Oh, beh, grazie. Io... io... fammi dire che sei un genio. Va bene. Quindi... Ma questa è sempre stata la mia opinione, è che... mi sono laureato in storia, e quando studi storia, quello che ti rendi conto è che, sai, c'è la teoria del grande uomo, e parlano di re e principi e regine e presidenti. Sono davvero le persone nella tecnologia che cambiano il mondo. Sono le persone che distribuiscono le carte, che si tratti di fuoco o elettricità, nel bene o nel male, o della sgranatrice o dell'iPhone o della bomba atomica. Quelle sono le carte, e il resto di noi le gioca e basta. Sei d'accordo con questa valutazione?

ELON: Penso che la tecnologia sia la cosa che causa questi grandi cambiamenti nella civiltà. Quindi, ovviamente, hai cose come, diciamo, la Gutenberg Press, prima della quale era molto difficile ottenere libri. Erano molto rari. Anche se avevi sete di conoscenza, non potevi davvero farci niente, perché c'erano pochissimi libri da leggere. Quindi... E Internet è qualcosa che va oltre la Gutenberg Press, credo. Ma, sai, è... Quando ho visto per la prima volta Internet nascere in un modo che il grande pubblico potesse usare, mi è sembrato che l'umanità nel suo insieme stesse... sviluppando un sistema nervoso. Quindi, in precedenza, il modo in cui le informazioni viaggiavano era per osmosi, da una persona all'altra o una persona che ne chiamava un'altra. Ma... L'accesso alle informazioni era molto limitato. Ora, con Internet, è come avere un sistema nervoso. È come se ogni parte dell'umanità avesse accesso a quasi tutte le informazioni dell'umanità. Hmm. Ad esempio, potresti essere nel bel mezzo della giungla amazzonica, con, diciamo, un terminale Starlink, e avere accesso a più informazioni rispetto al presidente nel 1980.

BILL: Esatto. Bene, qualsiasi cosa sul tuo telefono.

ELON: Tutto. Sì.

BILL: Ok. Quindi, tu sei uno di questi mazzieri, queste persone che distribuiscono le carte e te le inviano.

ELON: Anch'io spaccio alcuni nomi. Si. Alcuni, uh... Um...

BILL: Quindi... Quindi... Quindi, penso che molte persone abbiano pensato, quando hai comprato Twitter, che questo è una specie di valore anomalo. Tipo, come fa questo... Cosa non va bene con queste altre cose che stai facendo? Non l'ho mai pensato. Perché penso che tu abbia a che fare con grandi questioni e problemi di civiltà, e io... ero proprio sulla tua pagina. Penso che Twitter sia uno di questi. Voglio dire, hai parlato di questo virus della mente sveglia.

ELON: Sì.

BILL: In termini davvero apocalittici. Io non...Dovresti spiegare perché non pensi che sia un'iperbole dire cose come se stesse spingendo la civiltà verso il suicidio. Prima di tutto, cos'è il virus della mente sveglia? E se non ci occupiamo di questo, non si può fare nient'altro. Dimmi perché lo pensi.

ELON: Sì. Quindi... penso che dobbiamo essere molto cauti su tutto ciò che è antimeritocratico. Etutto ciò che è... Ciò si traduce nella soppressione della libertà di parola. Quindi, sai, questi sono due degli aspetti del virus della mente sveglia che penso siano molto pericolosi. È che spesso è antimeritocratico. Non puoi mettere in discussione le cose. Anche l'interrogatorio è brutto. Quindi, sai, un altro modo per... Quasi anonimo sarebbe cancellare la cultura. E ovviamente le persone hanno provato a cancellarti molte volte.

BILL: Molte volte.

ELON: Sì. Voglio dire...

BILL: Ogni settimana.

ELON: Sì.

BILL: Da sinistra e da destra. Ce l'ho da entrambe le parti.

ELON: Sì.

BILL: Ed è interessante. Tu ed io siamo entrambi, tipo, in quel piccolo gruppo di persone. Forse ora è un gruppo più numeroso.

ELON: Sì.

BILL: Quelli che vengono chiamati conservatori, che non sono davvero cambiati. Non ti considero un conservatore.

ELON: Sicuramente... Sì, tipo... almeno mi considero un moderato. Sai, quindi... Voglio dire... Almeno, come... Ho speso una quantità enorme della mia energia vitale costruendo energia sostenibile, sai, veicoli elettrici, e batterie, e solare e roba del genere, per aiutare salva l'ambiente. Non è un... Non è un... No, no, no. Non esattamente all'estrema destra.

BILL: No, hai disegnato quel diagramma una volta, dove sei qui. Mi sono riferito a quello. E, tipo, il mondo è cambiato.

ELON: Esatto.

BILL: Mi sento allo stesso modo. Sento che molto spesso il wokeness non si basa sul liberalismo. È l'opposto del liberalismo. Posso menzionarlo.

ELON: Sì, esattamente.

BILL: Molti esempi in cui è l'opposto, inclusa la libertà di parola.

ELON: La libertà di parola è in realtà estremamente importante . Ed è strano che siamo arrivati a questo punto in cui, tipo, la libertà di parola era un valore di sinistra o liberale. Eppure vediamo da, sai, le virgolette a sinistra, un desiderio di censurare effettivamente. E questo sembra folle. Voglio dire, penso che dovremmo essere estremamente preoccupati per tutto ciò che mina il Primo Emendamento. C'è una ragione per il Primo Emendamento. Il Primo Emendamento è dovuto al fatto che le persone provenivano da paesi in cui non potevano parlare liberamente e dove dire certe cose ti avrebbe portato in prigione. E loro dicevano, beh, non lo vogliamo qui. E a proposito, in molte parti del mondo, incluse parti del mondo che la gente potrebbe pensare siano relativamente simili agli Stati Uniti, le leggi linguistiche sono draconiane.

BILL: L'Inghilterra è molto diversa.

ELON: Non nominerò nessun paese, ma...

BILL: Inghilterra. Perché li proteggiamo? Non hanno il Primo Emendamento. È molto facile dimostrare la diffamazione in Inghilterra.

ELON: Amo l'Inghilterra. Ma...

BILL: Sì, anch'io. Ma non vorrei dire la cosa sbagliata. SÌ. Potresti essere denunciato più facilmente. Voglio dire, ci sono leggi in Francia. Penso che se neghi l'Olocausto, che penso sia ripugnante, ma penso anche che dovrebbe far parte della libertà di parola, puoi essere sbattuto in prigione. Okay, quindi questo...

ELON: Non posso enfatizzarlo abbastanza. Dobbiamo... Dobbiamo proteggere la libertà di parola. E la libertà di parola conta solo... È rilevante solo quando è qualcuno che non ti piace dire qualcosa che non ti piace. Perché ovviamente, il discorso che ti piace è...

BILL: Sì.

ELON: Sai, è facile. Quindi è... Ed è... Il problema della censura è che, per coloro che la sostengono, ricordate solo che, a un certo punto, si ritorcerà contro di voi.

BILL: Quindi... Questo ... woke mind virus, come è iniziato? Erano pipistrelli? Era un... Sì. Fuggire da un laboratorio? Voglio dire, qual è la tua valutazione di... Perché è abbastanza recente. Perché... Come è iniziato e perché?

ELON: Stavo cercando di capire da dove venisse. Penso che in realtà ci sia voluto molto tempo, in quanto è... penso che vada avanti da un po'. È... E... La quantità di indottrinamento che sta avvenendo nelle scuole e nelle università è, credo, molto al di là di ciò che i genitori realizzano. E me ne sono reso conto solo un po' tardi. L'esperienza che abbiamo avuto al liceo e all'università non è l'esperienza che stanno vivendo i ragazzi di oggi. E non lo è stato per, non so, 10 anni, forse 20 anni. Quindi...

BILL: Anche i genitori stessi sono una grossa parte del problema? Loro...

ELON: Beh, suppongo che in alcuni casi i genitori... Ma penso, tipo, i... I genitori generalmente non sono consapevoli di ciò che viene insegnato ai loro figli. O quello che non gli viene insegnato.

BILL: Fanno credere ai ragazzi di essere uguali.

ELON: Voglio dire... Sì, lascia che ti dia un esempio che mi ha detto un uomo giusto, che, sai, le sue figlie vanno al college in... Scusa, vai al liceo nella Bay Area. E...E stava chiedendo loro, tipo, beh, quindi chi sono i... Sapete, chi sono i primi presidenti degli Stati Uniti? Potrebbero fare il nome di Washington, ma... E io ho detto, beh, cosa sai di lui? Beh, era un proprietario di schiavi. Cos'altro? Giusto. Esattamente. Niente. Giusto. Tipo, ok, questo è... Forse dovresti saperne di più. Sai? Sì.

BILL: Sì. Equesto è il virus della mente sveglia. Esattamente. Sì.

ELON: Sì. Esattamente. È come... Sai, il... Sai, la schiavitù è ovviamente un'istituzione orribile, ma dovremmo comunque saperne di più su George Washington.

BILL: E comunque, uno che era praticato in tutto il mondo, da sempre, dall'inizio dei tempi, da ogni razza, comprese le persone di colore. Mi dispiace dirtelo. È enorme nella Bibbia.

ELON: Assolutamente. Quindi...

BILL: La Bibbia lo adora. Siamo... Davvero!

ELON: Sì. Sono piuttosto severi su, tipo, sai, non prendere lo schiavo di qualcun altro in quel genere di cose.

BILL: Giusto, ma nessuno dice mai, semplicemente non farlo.

ELON: Non lo fanno. Non lo fanno. In nessun punto si dice che la schiavitù è un male nella Bibbia. No. No. No. Non lo condannano affatto. Loro solo... Quindi è...

BILL: Ma Twitter non se la passa male, giusto? Voglio dire, oggi ho visto che Tucker Carlson è stato recentemente licenziato. Eri solo nel suo programma e lui ha perso il lavoro, quindi spero che questo non sia vecchio. Sì.

ELON: Sì. Ma... Si spera, sì.

BILL: Cosa, sei l'angelo della morte?

ELON: Sì, no, esattamente. Non sono la Mary tifoide dei talk show.

BILL: Uh... Ma il suo...

ELON: Per qualche ragione, la gente viene licenziata dopo.

BILL: Ma il suo sproloquio ieri o oggi su Twitter...

ELON: Penso che fosse ieri o qualcosa del genere. O un paio di giorni fa.

BILL: Ha fatto più di ogni monologo di telegiornale. O qualcosa di simile. Giusto?

ELON: Beh, Twitter ha un pubblico incredibile. Quindi ci sono 250 milioni di persone che trascorrono in media mezz'ora al giorno su Twitter. Quindi si tratta di circa 120-130 milioni di ore utente al giorno, ed è in aumento. Quindi... Ehm... Non abbiamo fatto niente. Per essere chiari, non abbiamo fatto niente di speciale. Ho saputo in seguito che aveva pubblicato qualcosa su Twitter. Quindi è solo che Twitter ha molta attenzione da parte della gente. Uh, quindi... E tendono ad essere le persone che sono, uh... Che leggono molto o sono interessate agli eventi attuali, um, e, um... Generalmente sono piuttosto influenti. Quindi...

BILL: Ma la maggior parte delle persone che twittano sono le stesse persone, giusto? Voglio dire, le persone che effettivamente twittano dovrebbero solo leggerlo. Sento che è... l'ho letto molte volte. È una percentuale molto piccola delle persone su Twitter, e sembra che... Vedi, ecco perché non twitto più, perché ora potresti essere il sindaco di Tweet Town.

ELON: Sì. Sindaco di Tweet Town. Abbiamo un limite con quello.

BILL: E sono contento... E mi piace che al sindaco piacciano le mie battute. Ma il motivo per cui non lo faccio più è perché la folla di ragazze cattive è ancora lì. E questo non è cambiato. Ad esempio, è troppo facile essere cancellati. E non so nemmeno cosa li faccia incazzare. Sono così pazzi, questi ragazzi. Mi sembra di camminare su un tetto con gli occhi bendati. Potrei cadere in qualsiasi momento. Quella era la cosa più innocua, ma è come, sai, ho detto che George Washington è stato un grande presidente. Beh, come osi.

ELON: Già. Si Esattamente. Avevo dei difetti, ma...

BILL: Allora come risolve questo, signor sindaco?

ELON: ...strumentale nella creazione degli Stati Uniti, quindi. .. Beh, devi dire, tipo, cosa significa cancellato? Sai, voglio dire, sì, le persone ti attaccano su Twitter, questa è una cosa, ma francamente, questo aumenterà solo il coinvolgimento. Quindi lo ignorerei.

BILL: Beh, per te è facile, perché non possono toglierti il lavoro. O uno qualsiasi dei tuoi dieci lavori principali, ma potrebbero prendere il mio, e lo hanno fatto una volta, tra l'altro.

ELON: Sì. Okay, bene, giusto.

BILL: Sai, sono stato, tipo, letteralmente cancellato.

ELON: Letteralmente cancellato?

BILL: Sì, voglio dire, tipo , lo spettacolo è annullato. È come... Ok, quindi eri al Congresso, al Congresso l'altro giorno, a parlare con Chuck Schumer dell'intelligenza artificiale. Sono molto interessato a questo, perché ci sei da anni. Ho sempre pensato che avevi ragione su questo. Penso che tu abbia ragione su quasi tutto. Voglio dire, facciamo più bambini e cresciamoli su Marte. Non capisco, ma va bene. Beh, penso solo che dovremmo essere cauti riguardo al declino della civiltà con... E abbiamo tassi di natalità in calo nella maggior parte dei posti, sì.

BILL: Esatto. E anche il crollo delle risorse.

ELON: No, no, le risorse andranno bene.

BILL: Ma non stanno bene... Non stanno bene adesso.

ELON: Senti, non sto suggerendo compiacimento. Vogliamo passare a un'economia energetica sostenibile il più rapidamente possibile, ma non corriamo alcun rischio di collasso delle risorse.

BILL: Ma molte persone non hanno abbastanza cibo o acqua. Acqua. Rimarremo senza acqua. Stanno finendo la sabbia.

ELON: No, la Terra è composta per il 70% da acqua per superficie. Ma non puoi berlo. La dissalazione è assurdamente economica.

BILL: Perché non lo facciamo, allora?

ELON: Facciamo...

BILL: È fatto. Hai molto tempo libero.

ELON: È fatta. Ci sono moltidissalazione effettuata. C'è molta acqua. Questo non è un problema. Voglio essere chiaro.

BILL: Va bene. Quindi, ma parliamo di intelligenza artificiale, perché, tipo, tu eri su questo suggerimento 10 anni fa quando nessun altro lo era. E ho sempre pensato, ha ragione. Perché? Perché ho visto troppi film. Tutto ciò che accade nei film, accade nella vita reale. E, sai, se crei cose molto più intelligenti di te, perché non dovrebbero diventare i tuoi signori? Quindi cosa hai detto a Chuck Schumer, e cosa stiamo facendo al riguardo? So che vuoi mettere in pausa l'intelligenza artificiale, perché solo negli ultimi sei mesi con ChatGPT, che proveniva da un'azienda che hai avviato...

ELON: Sì. Beh, voglio dire, un mio amico ha una sorta di modifica del rasoio di Occam, sai, invece che la cosa più semplice è la più probabile, tipo, il risultato più ironico è il più probabile.

BILL: Giusto. Sì.

ELON: Quindi, per quanto riguarda l'intelligenza artificiale, penso solo che dovremmo essere... Dovremmo avere una sorta di controllo normativo. Quindi, sai, per tutto ciò che è un pericolo per il pubblico, se si tratta di aerei, automobili, cibo e droghe, abbiamo una supervisione normativa, come un arbitro, essenzialmente, e ci assicuriamo che le aziende non taglino angoli. Quindi penso che dal momento che ... Se si concorda sul fatto che l'IA è un potenziale rischio per il pubblico, allora dovrebbe esserci un organismo di regolamentazione che sovrintende a ciò che le aziende stanno facendo, in modo che non taglino gli angoli e potenzialmente siano qualcosa di veramente pericoloso.

BILL: E se non facciamo qualcosa... Preparami uno scenario nei prossimi due, cinque, dieci anni, se non si fa niente, perché siamo molto bravi a non fare niente, soprattutto quando si tratta di profitto, e questo è un grande motore di profitto ora per le aziende, vorranno solo competere tra loro. Voglio dire, ci sono persone come Ray Kurzweil, che non pensano affatto che sia un problema.

ELON: In realtà, la previsione di Ray Kurzweil per la superintelligenza artificiale è il 2029. Non è lontano.

BILL: Esatto. Ma lui non pensa che sia un problema, mentre persone come te, Bill Gates e Stephen Hawking pensano che sia un problema.

ELON: Sì, dipende. Se alcune persone vogliono vivere per sempre, o per un periodo di tempo molto più lungo, e vedono l'intelligenza artificiale come l'unico modo per... La superintelligenza digitale è l'unica cosa che può capire come farli vivere per sempre. Penso che Kurzweil sia in quella categoria. Quindi preferirebbe avere l'IA, l'intelligenza artificiale generale, piuttosto che no, perché può calcolare la longevità.

BILL: Quindi sei ottimista? Ho letto nel tuo articolo su Rolling Stone in passato che hai detto che non puoi mai essere felice se non sei innamorato.

ELON: Beh, puoi essere felice a metà, suppongo. Voglio dire, ci sono due cose. Penso che per essere molto felice, se sei felice in amore e ami il tuo lavoro, allora sarai, penso, pienamente felice se avrai una di queste due cose, sarai mezzo felice, sai, all'incirca.

BILL: Sento che il tema in molti dei tuoi lavori che collegano tutte queste cose diverse è la connessione. Ad esempio, vuoi collegare le cose. Sai, vuoi connetterti all'Hyperloop e vuoi connetterlo a Marte e persino a Twitter.

ELON: Mi piace Connect 4.

BILL: Vuoi...

ELON: Adoro quel gioco.

BILL: Cosa?

ELON: Connect 4, sai, quando ottieni il... Scusa, questa è una commedia, Sai? Devo buttarci dentro un po' di commedia.

BILL: È difficile per te, perché quando hai comprato Twitter, stai facendo quello che hai fatto quando hai rilevato... quando hai fondato Tesla. Hai vissuto in fabbrica, giusto? Sento che questo è il tuo... questo è il tuo... il tuo schema. Entri in questa cosa e poi devi vivere in fabbrica per farla funzionare. Sei tornato in... Ti sei trasferito in Texas, poi sei tornato a San Francisco a causa di Twitter.

ELON: Ho vissuto nella biblioteca di Twitter per un po', sì. Ma penso che le cose siano ragionevolmente stabilizzate in questo momento. Era solo sulla corsia preferenziale verso il fallimento dopo l'acquisizione, quindi ho dovuto intraprendere azioni drastiche se non c'era altra scelta.

BILL: Sto solo dicendo che è difficile per una donna. A, tipo, quando il tizio vive in fabbrica.

ELON: Sì.

BILL: Può essere un ostacolo.

ELON: Ma nel complesso, con, sai, la mia preoccupazione per Twitter era che... è un po' la piazza della città digitale, ed è importante che ci sia sia la realtà che la percezione della fiducia per un'ampia gamma di punti di vista. E c'era molta censura in corso, e ne abbiamo scoperto molto con i file di Twitter, inclusa molta censura governativa, che... sai... È...Voglio dire, sembra che quello che stava succedendo lì dovesse essere una violazione costituzionale. Quindi, e posso... dato che sono, tipo, un avido utente di Twitter, posso rilevare che, tipo, qualcosa non va qui. Ed è proprio per questo che ho fatto l'acquisizione. Non perché pensassi che fosse un modo semplice per fare soldi o qualcosa del genere. Questo è... fare il sindacodi Twitter town, Tweet town, o qualsiasi altra cosa, è decisamente come se ci fossero un sacco di frecce puntate su di te, tipo, che volano verso di te.

BILL: Sì, certo. Ma sembri gestirlo bene. Spero che tu lo faccia. Perché, guarda, voglio dire, i geni a volte saranno un po' eccentrici, ma il tuo cuore è sempre al posto giusto. Stavi cercando di sistemare questo mondo e, guarda, potrei parlarti per sempre. Oggi non possiamo. Mi piacerebbe sballarmi con te. Conosco un ottimo posto per farlo. Ma non posso dirti quanto ti apprezzo. So che hai molte scelte e posti in cui puoi andare. Grazie, Elon Musk, signore e signori. Va bene, ci vediamo presto, Elon. Grazie.

Italian transcription subtitles:

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Il mio primo ospite è l'uomo che ha reso le auto elettriche una cosa,

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e sta attualmente lavorando al perfezionamento di razzi riutilizzabili,

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viaggi nello spazio, collegando il cervello umano direttamente ai computer,

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collegando le città con treni proiettile elettromagnetici,

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il sistema satellitare Starlink, così importante per la guerra in Ucraina,

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e poi martedì,

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lavorerà su quella cosa del tunnel sul traffico.

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Inoltre twitta molto.

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Elon Musk, proprio qui.

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Guardati.

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Oh.

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Ho ricevuto l'ordine completo delle cose che fai in un giorno lì?

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Quando stavo leggendo lì,

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Ho tralasciato la cosa del tunnel alla fine.

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Lavori su tutte queste cose?

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Sì, ho molti lavori.

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Fai tutte queste cose ogni giorno?

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Lavori su tutti loro in un solo giorno?

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NO.

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Ma ho una lunga giornata di lavoro.

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Sì,

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quindi lavoro molto.

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Beh, sono così felice che tu sia qui,

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perché facciamo uno spettacolo in cui parliamo dei cambiamenti che avvengono nel mondo,

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ma parliamo e basta.

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Ci sono pochissime persone che realmente realizzano il cambiamento.

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Tu sei una di quelle persone.

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Probabilmente.

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Sai,

29
00:01:23,460 --> 00:01:25,540
Voglio solo dire che amo questo pubblico.

30
00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,160
Beh, sei un ragazzo simpatico.

31
00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:32,160
Grazie. Intendo,

32
00:01:32,780 --> 00:01:34,000
ti attaccano molto.

33
00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:34,440
Loro fanno.

34
00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:38,900
E ti sembra di riderci sopra,

35
00:01:38,900 --> 00:01:40,200
che penso sia fantastico.

36
00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:42,800
Mi piace che tu abbia il senso dell'umorismo,

37
00:01:42,820 --> 00:01:44,620
perché un ragazzo importante come te che fa

38
00:01:44,620 --> 00:01:48,800
i cambiamenti potrebbero usare i tuoi poteri per il male e non per il bene.

39
00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:50,880
Il fatto che...

40
00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:51,340
Sì, assolutamente.

41
00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:52,200
Potresti.

42
00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:54,460
Ovviamente.

43
00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:56,000
Sì, non li ho mai usati per il male.

44
00:01:56,100 --> 00:01:56,900
No lo so.

45
00:01:57,460 --> 00:02:01,940
Ma il modo in cui lo so è perché hai il senso dell'umorismo.

46
00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:02,620
Sì.

47
00:02:02,820 --> 00:02:03,540
Davvero.

48
00:02:03,900 --> 00:02:04,140
Giuro che lo faccio.

49
00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:05,380
Sì, ti piace ridere.

50
00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:06,440
Ti piace essere divertente.

51
00:02:06,460 --> 00:02:07,180
Voglio dire, mi uccido.

52
00:02:07,580 --> 00:02:07,900
Giusto.

53
00:02:07,900 --> 00:02:08,640
Sì.

54
00:02:11,260 --> 00:02:11,720
Sai,

55
00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:13,040
IO...

56
00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:15,080
Al contrario di qualcuno come Zuckerberg,

57
00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:17,000
che non sono nemmeno sicuro sia un vero ragazzo.

58
00:02:18,640 --> 00:02:19,700
Sì.

59
00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,360
In realtà amo la commedia,

60
00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:27,520
e io, sai, come...

61
00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:29,100
Molti anni fa, in realtà ero tra il pubblico qui

62
00:02:29,100 --> 00:02:29,960
e guardato il tuo spettacolo.

63
00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:30,620
Oh veramente?

64
00:02:30,620 --> 00:02:32,380
Quindi sono stato un ammiratore di lunga data del tuo spettacolo.

65
00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:33,260
Vabbè,

66
00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:34,100
Grazie.

67
00:02:34,100 --> 00:02:36,360
IO...

68
00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,040
IO...

69
00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:40,940
Lascia che ti risponda che sei un genio.

70
00:02:41,220 --> 00:02:41,440
Va bene.

71
00:02:42,260 --> 00:02:42,600
COSÌ...

72
00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:44,120
Ma questo è sempre stato il mio punto di vista,

73
00:02:44,260 --> 00:02:44,760
è questo...

74
00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:45,840
Ero uno specialista in storia,

75
00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:46,820
e quando studi storia,

76
00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:48,400
quello che ti rendi conto è che,

77
00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:50,200
sai, c'è la teoria del grande uomo,

78
00:02:50,220 --> 00:02:51,400
e parlano di re

79
00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:53,520
e principi e regine e presidenti.

80
00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:57,380
Sono davvero le persone nella tecnologia che cambiano il mondo.

81
00:02:57,500 --> 00:03:00,180
Sono le persone che distribuiscono le carte,

82
00:03:00,620 --> 00:03:01,080
che si tratti di fuoco o elettricità,

83
00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:04,940
nel bene o nel male,

84
00:03:05,020 --> 00:03:07,700
o la sgranatrice o l'iPhone

85
00:03:07,700 --> 00:03:09,040
o la bomba atomica.

86
00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:10,260
Quelle sono le carte,

87
00:03:10,340 --> 00:03:12,060
e il resto di noi ci gioca e basta.

88
00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:13,800
Concorderebbe con tale valutazione?

89
00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:21,060
Penso che la tecnologia sia la cosa che causa questi grandi cambiamenti nella civiltà.

90
00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:23,100
Quindi, ovviamente, hai cose come,

91
00:03:23,940 --> 00:03:24,980
diciamo, la Gutenberg Press,

92
00:03:25,460 --> 00:03:27,940
prima del quale era molto difficile ottenere libri.

93
00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:28,840
Erano molto rari.

94
00:03:28,940 --> 00:03:29,060
Anche se avessi sete di conoscenza,

95
00:03:29,060 --> 00:03:32,660
non potevi davvero farci niente,

96
00:03:33,180 --> 00:03:34,460
perché c'erano pochissimi libri da leggere.

97
00:03:35,820 --> 00:03:35,900
COSÌ...

98
00:03:35,900 --> 00:03:38,440
E Internet è qualcosa

99
00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:40,840
oltre la Gutenberg Press, credo.

100
00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:43,540
Ma, sai, è...

101
00:03:43,540 --> 00:03:46,500
Quando ho visto nascere Internet per la prima volta

102
00:03:46,500 --> 00:03:48,580
in modo che il grande pubblico possa usarlo,

103
00:03:48,580 --> 00:03:54,540
sembrava che l'intera umanità fosse...

104
00:03:54,540 --> 00:03:55,760
sviluppo di un sistema nervoso.

105
00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:57,080
Quindi, in precedenza, il modo in cui le informazioni viaggiavano

106
00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:59,880
sarebbe per osmosi,

107
00:03:59,900 --> 00:04:00,820
una persona all'altra,

108
00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:02,620
o una persona che chiama un'altra.

109
00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:06,100
Ma...

110
00:04:06,100 --> 00:04:07,620
L'accesso alle informazioni era molto limitato.

111
00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:09,160
Ora, con Internet,

112
00:04:09,700 --> 00:04:10,680
è come avere un sistema nervoso.

113
00:04:10,780 --> 00:04:13,340
È come se ogni parte dell'umanità avesse accesso

114
00:04:13,340 --> 00:04:15,520
a quasi tutte le informazioni dell'umanità.

115
00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:20,040
Hmm. Ad esempio, potresti essere nel mezzo della giungla amazzonica,

116
00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:24,060
con, diciamo, un terminale Starlink e avere accesso a maggiori informazioni

117
00:04:24,060 --> 00:04:27,040
rispetto al presidente nel 1980. Esatto.

118
00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:28,840
Bene, qualsiasi cosa sul tuo telefono.

119
00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:29,740
Qualunque cosa.

120
00:04:30,340 --> 00:04:30,920
È...

121
00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:31,180
Sì.

122
00:04:31,500 --> 00:04:31,780
Va bene.

123
00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,040
Quindi, tu sei uno di questi spacciatori,

124
00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:36,500
queste persone che distribuiscono le carte e te le inviano.

125
00:04:36,500 --> 00:04:37,120
mi occupo di alcuni nomi,

126
00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:39,340
pure. Si.

127
00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:40,260
Alcuni,

128
00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,320
ehm... ehm...

129
00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:46,600
COSÌ...

130
00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,540
COSÌ...

131
00:04:50,540 --> 00:04:51,820
Quindi, penso che molte persone abbiano pensato,

132
00:04:51,820 --> 00:04:52,440
quando hai comprato Twitter,

133
00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:52,800
che questo è un modo stravagante di fare le cose. Quando hai comprato Twitter,

134
00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:54,500
che questo è una specie di valore anomalo.

135
00:04:54,740 --> 00:04:55,300
Tipo, come funziona questo...

136
00:04:55,300 --> 00:04:57,880
Cosa non va bene con queste altre cose che stai facendo?

137
00:04:57,940 --> 00:04:59,260
Non l'ho mai pensato.

138
00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,900
Perché penso che tu abbia a che fare con grossi problemi di civiltà

139
00:05:02,900 --> 00:05:04,860
e problemi, e io...

140
00:05:04,860 --> 00:05:05,860
era proprio sulla tua pagina.

141
00:05:06,060 --> 00:05:07,360
Penso che Twitter sia uno di questi.

142
00:05:07,540 --> 00:05:10,540
Voglio dire, hai parlato di questo virus della mente sveglia.

143
00:05:10,540 --> 00:05:10,880
SÌ.

144
00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,720
In termini davvero apocalittici.

145
00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:14,520
Io non...

146
00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,080
Dovresti spiegare perché non pensi che sia un'iperbole

147
00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:20,160
dire cose del genere sta spingendo la civiltà verso il suicidio.

148
00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,400
Prima di tutto, cos'è il virus della mente sveglia?

149
00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:24,300
E se non ci occupiamo di questo,

150
00:05:24,420 --> 00:05:25,600
nient'altro può essere fatto.

151
00:05:25,700 --> 00:05:27,180
Dimmi perché lo pensi.

152
00:05:28,140 --> 00:05:28,360
Sì.

153
00:05:29,020 --> 00:05:30,500
COSÌ...

154
00:05:30,500 --> 00:05:34,800
Penso che dobbiamo essere molto cauti su tutto ciò che è antimeritocratico.

155
00:05:35,740 --> 00:05:38,880
E tutto ciò che è...

156
00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,560
Ciò si traduce nella soppressione della libertà di parola.

157
00:05:42,900 --> 00:05:43,280
COSÌ,

158
00:05:43,780 --> 00:05:46,140
sai, questi sono due degli aspetti del virus della mente sveglia che penso siano molto pericolosi.

159
00:05:46,140 --> 00:05:49,400
È che spesso è antimeritocratico.

160
00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:51,640
Non puoi mettere in discussione le cose.

161
00:05:52,700 --> 00:05:53,940
Anche l'interrogatorio è brutto.

162
00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,240
Così lo sai,

163
00:05:57,740 --> 00:06:00,220
un altro modo per...

164
00:06:00,220 --> 00:06:02,400
Quasi anonimo sarebbe la cultura dell'annullamento.

165
00:06:02,580 --> 00:06:04,320
E ovviamente le persone hanno provato a cancellarti molte volte.

166
00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:05,060
Molte volte.

167
00:06:05,060 --> 00:06:05,300
Sì.

168
00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:05,780
Intendo...

169
00:06:05,780 --> 00:06:06,360
Ogni settimana.

170
00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:06,940
Sì.

171
00:06:07,860 --> 00:06:09,660
Da sinistra e da destra.

172
00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:11,080
L'ho avuto da entrambe le parti.

173
00:06:11,540 --> 00:06:11,860
Sì.

174
00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:12,620
Ed è interessante.

175
00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:13,940
Tu ed io siamo entrambi,

176
00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:16,740
come, in quel piccolo gruppo di persone. Forse ora è un gruppo più numeroso.

177
00:06:17,060 --> 00:06:19,000
Sì. che sono chiamati conservatori,

178
00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:20,460
che non sono davvero cambiati.

179
00:06:20,580 --> 00:06:22,620
Non ti considero un conservatore.

180
00:06:22,700 --> 00:06:23,900
Io sicuramente...

181
00:06:23,900 --> 00:06:25,120
Sì, tipo...

182
00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,340
Almeno penso a me stesso come a un moderato.

183
00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:29,460
Sai, quindi...

184
00:06:29,460 --> 00:06:30,680
Intendo...

185
00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:32,320
Almeno, come...

186
00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,640
Ho speso una quantità enorme della mia energia vitale

187
00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:38,020
costruendo energia sostenibile, sai, veicoli elettrici,

188
00:06:38,340 --> 00:06:40,000
e batterie, e solare e roba del genere,

189
00:06:40,280 --> 00:06:41,300
per aiutare a salvare l'ambiente.

190
00:06:41,420 --> 00:06:43,480
Non è un... Non è un...

191
00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:44,360
No, no,

192
00:06:44,780 --> 00:06:45,040
NO.

193
00:06:48,740 --> 00:06:49,920
Non esattamente di estrema destra.

194
00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,460
No, hai disegnato quel diagramma una volta,

195
00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:54,300
dove sei qui.

196
00:06:54,540 --> 00:06:55,600
Mi sono riferito a quello.

197
00:06:55,780 --> 00:06:57,260
E, come, il mondo è cambiato.

198
00:06:57,280 --> 00:06:57,620
Giusto.

199
00:06:57,620 --> 00:06:58,660
Mi sento allo stesso modo.

200
00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,340
Sento che molto spesso il wokeness non si basa sul liberalismo.

201
00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:03,760
È l'opposto del liberalismo.

202
00:07:03,900 --> 00:07:04,220
posso citarlo.

203
00:07:04,220 --> 00:07:04,960
Si, esattamente.

204
00:07:05,060 --> 00:07:06,640
Molti esempi in cui è il contrario,

205
00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:07,820
compresa la libertà di parola.

206
00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:10,720
La libertà di parola è in realtà estremamente importante.

207
00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:14,100
Ed è strano che siamo arrivati a questo punto in cui,

208
00:07:14,100 --> 00:07:17,260
ad esempio, la libertà di parola era un valore di sinistra o liberale.

209
00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,800
Eppure vediamo da,

210
00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:22,560
sai, le virgolette sono rimaste,

211
00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:25,460
un desiderio di censurare effettivamente.

212
00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,200
E questo sembra folle.

213
00:07:29,300 --> 00:07:36,920
Voglio dire, penso che dovremmo essere estremamente preoccupati per tutto ciò che mina il Primo Emendamento.

214
00:07:37,060 --> 00:07:38,340
C'è una ragione per il Primo Emendamento.

215
00:07:38,340 --> 00:07:41,720
Il primo emendamento è perché le persone provenivano da paesi

216
00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:43,540
dove non potevano parlare liberamente

217
00:07:43,540 --> 00:07:47,800
e dove dire certe cose ti farebbe gettare in prigione.

218
00:07:48,460 --> 00:07:48,940
E loro erano come,

219
00:07:48,980 --> 00:07:50,060
beh, non lo vogliamo qui.

220
00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:51,320
E comunque,

221
00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:52,760
in molte parti del mondo,

222
00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,760
comprese parti del mondo che la gente potrebbe pensare siano relativamente simili agli Stati Uniti,

223
00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:00,540
le leggi del discorso sono draconiane.

224
00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:02,340
L'Inghilterra è molto diversa.

225
00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:06,120
Non nominerò nessun paese, ma...

226
00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:06,680
Inghilterra.

227
00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:08,380
Perché li proteggiamo?

228
00:08:08,460 --> 00:08:09,520
Non hanno il Primo Emendamento.

229
00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:12,760
È molto facile dimostrare la diffamazione in Inghilterra.

230
00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:13,480
Mentre qui è quasi...

231
00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:14,140
Amo l'Inghilterra.

232
00:08:14,780 --> 00:08:14,840
Ma...

233
00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:15,400
Si Anche tu.

234
00:08:15,780 --> 00:08:17,960
Ma non vorrei dire la cosa sbagliata.

235
00:08:18,620 --> 00:08:19,080
SÌ.

236
00:08:19,460 --> 00:08:20,720
Potresti essere denunciato più facilmente.

237
00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:22,880
Voglio dire, ci sono leggi in Francia.

238
00:08:23,020 --> 00:08:24,420
Penso che se neghi l'Olocausto,

239
00:08:24,420 --> 00:08:26,460
che penso sia aberrante,

240
00:08:26,540 --> 00:08:28,600
ma penso anche che dovrebbe far parte della libertà di parola,

241
00:08:29,140 --> 00:08:30,680
puoi essere gettato in prigione.

242
00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:31,380
Va bene,

243
00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:32,380
così questo...

244
00:08:32,380 --> 00:08:34,420
Non posso davvero sottolinearlo abbastanza.

245
00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:36,280
Dobbiamo...

246
00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:38,140
Dobbiamo proteggere la libertà di parola.

247
00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:40,180
E la libertà di parola conta solo...

248
00:08:40,180 --> 00:08:42,520
È rilevante solo quando è qualcuno che non ti piace

249
00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:44,000
dire qualcosa che non ti piace.

250
00:08:44,860 --> 00:08:47,160
Perché ovviamente il discorso che ti piace è...

251
00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:47,500
SÌ.

252
00:08:47,500 --> 00:08:48,120
Sai, è facile.

253
00:08:48,780 --> 00:08:50,680
Così è...

254
00:08:50,680 --> 00:08:51,800
E il suo...

255
00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:52,660
Il problema della censura è che,

256
00:08:52,660 --> 00:08:55,200
per coloro che lo sostengono,

257
00:08:55,740 --> 00:08:58,260
ricorda solo che, a un certo punto, ti tornerà addosso.

258
00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:03,780
APPLAUSI Allora...

259
00:09:03,780 --> 00:09:05,760
Questo...

260
00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:09,060
woke mind virus, come è iniziato?

261
00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:09,960
Erano pipistrelli?

262
00:09:10,100 --> 00:09:11,040
Era un...

263
00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:11,380
Sì.

264
00:09:11,380 --> 00:09:12,680
Fuggire da un laboratorio?

265
00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,120
Voglio dire, qual è la tua valutazione di...

266
00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:16,540
Perché è abbastanza recente.

267
00:09:17,340 --> 00:09:18,160
Perché...

268
00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:19,140
Come è iniziato e perché?

269
00:09:19,140 --> 00:09:24,160
Stavo cercando di capire da dove provenga.

270
00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:25,820
Penso che in realtà sia passato molto tempo a fermentare,

271
00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:28,440
in quanto è...

272
00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:31,040
Penso che vada avanti da un po'.

273
00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:33,760
Esso...

274
00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:35,760
E...

275
00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:40,840
La quantità di indottrinamento che sta avvenendo nelle scuole e nelle università è,

276
00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:42,520
Penso, ben oltre ciò che i genitori realizzano.

277
00:09:44,140 --> 00:09:46,120
E me ne sono reso conto solo un po' tardi.

278
00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:55,120
L'esperienza che abbiamo avuto al liceo e all'università non è l'esperienza che stanno vivendo i ragazzi di oggi.

279
00:09:56,140 --> 00:09:58,260
E non è stato per, non lo so,

280
00:09:58,980 --> 00:10:00,520
10 anni, forse 20 anni.

281
00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:02,640
COSÌ...

282
00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,360
Anche i genitori stessi sono una parte importante del problema?

283
00:10:06,100 --> 00:10:06,500
Essi...

284
00:10:06,500 --> 00:10:06,820
BENE,

285
00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:09,900
Suppongo che in alcuni casi i genitori...

286
00:10:09,900 --> 00:10:10,640
Ma penso, tipo,

287
00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:11,920
IL...

288
00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,620
I genitori generalmente non sono consapevoli di ciò che viene insegnato ai loro figli.

289
00:10:14,860 --> 00:10:15,100
O quello che non gli viene insegnato.

290
00:10:15,100 --> 00:10:19,680
Stanno lasciando che i ragazzi pensino di essere uguali.

291
00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:21,180
Intendo...

292
00:10:21,180 --> 00:10:24,340
Sì, lascia che ti faccia un esempio che mi ha detto un uomo onesto,

293
00:10:24,740 --> 00:10:27,820
che, sai, le sue figlie vanno al college a...

294
00:10:27,820 --> 00:10:29,720
Scusa, vai al liceo nella Bay Area.

295
00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:31,820
E...

296
00:10:31,820 --> 00:10:33,180
E stava chiedendo loro,

297
00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:36,080
tipo, beh, allora chi sono i...

298
00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,380
Sai, chi sono i primi presidenti degli Stati Uniti?

299
00:10:38,900 --> 00:10:40,360
Potrebbero nominare Washington,

300
00:10:40,660 --> 00:10:41,180
Ma...

301
00:10:41,180 --> 00:10:42,020
E ho detto, beh, cosa sai di lui?

302
00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:42,920
Beh, era un proprietario di schiavi.

303
00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:43,580
Cos'altro?

304
00:10:43,580 --> 00:10:45,200
Giusto. Esattamente. Niente.

305
00:10:46,340 --> 00:10:46,540
Giusto.

306
00:10:46,580 --> 00:10:47,960
Tipo, okay, è...

307
00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:49,720
Forse dovresti saperne di più.

308
00:10:50,180 --> 00:10:50,500
Sai?

309
00:10:50,820 --> 00:10:51,120
Sì.

310
00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:51,700
Sì.

311
00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,180
E questo è il virus Waltz-Mind.

312
00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:55,460
Esattamente. Sì.

313
00:10:55,980 --> 00:10:56,080
Sì.

314
00:10:57,180 --> 00:10:57,880
Esattamente.

315
00:10:58,160 --> 00:10:59,600
È come...

316
00:10:59,600 --> 00:10:59,740
Sai,

317
00:11:00,900 --> 00:11:01,940
IL...

318
00:11:01,940 --> 00:11:05,160
Sai, la schiavitù è ovviamente un'istituzione orribile,

319
00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,720
ma dovremmo comunque saperne di più su George Washington.

320
00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:09,320
E comunque,

321
00:11:09,340 --> 00:11:11,100
uno che è stato praticato in tutto il mondo,

322
00:11:11,380 --> 00:11:14,020
per sempre, dall'inizio dei tempi, da ogni razza,

323
00:11:14,540 --> 00:11:15,380
comprese le persone di colore.

324
00:11:15,540 --> 00:11:16,440
Mi dispiace dirtelo.

325
00:11:16,680 --> 00:11:17,800
È enorme nella Bibbia.

326
00:11:18,260 --> 00:11:18,540
Assolutamente.

327
00:11:19,020 --> 00:11:19,220
COSÌ...

328
00:11:19,220 --> 00:11:19,800
La Bibbia lo ama.

329
00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:20,840
Erano...

330
00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:21,940
IO...

331
00:11:21,940 --> 00:11:22,340
Veramente?

332
00:11:22,340 --> 00:11:22,660
SÌ.

333
00:11:22,820 --> 00:11:24,500
Sono piuttosto severi su,

334
00:11:24,780 --> 00:11:26,780
come, sai, non prendere lo schiavo di qualcun altro in quel genere di cose.

335
00:11:26,780 --> 00:11:28,040
Giusto, ma nessuno dice mai,

336
00:11:28,380 --> 00:11:29,020
basta non farlo.

337
00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:29,680
Non lo fanno.

338
00:11:29,700 --> 00:11:30,500
Non lo fanno.

339
00:11:30,680 --> 00:11:32,900
In nessun punto si dice che la schiavitù è un male nella Bibbia.

340
00:11:33,300 --> 00:11:33,620
No. No.

341
00:11:34,020 --> 00:11:35,700
No. Non lo condannano affatto.

342
00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:37,080
Loro solo...

343
00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:37,220
COSÌ...

344
00:11:37,220 --> 00:11:38,240
Così è...

345
00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:39,800
Ma Twitter non sta andando male,

346
00:11:39,940 --> 00:11:40,040
Giusto?

347
00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:44,620
Voglio dire, oggi ho visto che Tucker Carlson è stato recentemente licenziato.

348
00:11:44,680 --> 00:11:46,460
Eri solo nel suo show e lui ha perso il lavoro,

349
00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:47,600
quindi spero che questo non sia vecchio.

350
00:11:48,560 --> 00:11:49,880
Sì. Sì. Ma...

351
00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:50,800
Si spera, sì.

352
00:11:50,940 --> 00:11:52,440
Cosa, sei l'angelo della morte?

353
00:11:52,700 --> 00:11:53,480
Sì, no, esattamente.

354
00:11:53,980 --> 00:11:56,280
Non sono la Mary tifoide dei talk show.

355
00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:57,980
Ehm...

356
00:11:57,980 --> 00:11:58,300
Ma il suo...

357
00:11:58,300 --> 00:12:00,220
Per qualche ragione, le persone vengono licenziate dopo.

358
00:12:00,220 --> 00:12:04,280
Ma il suo sproloquio ieri o oggi su Twitter...

359
00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:05,300
Penso che fosse ieri o qualcosa del genere.

360
00:12:05,620 --> 00:12:05,840
O un paio di giorni fa.

361
00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:09,580
Ha fatto più di ogni monologo di notizie via cavo.

362
00:12:09,580 --> 00:12:09,980
Sì.

363
00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:10,680
O qualcosa di simile.

364
00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:11,340
È giusto?

365
00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:12,100
BENE,

366
00:12:12,420 --> 00:12:13,400
Twitter ha un pubblico enorme.

367
00:12:13,500 --> 00:12:17,380
Quindi ci sono 250 milioni di persone che trascorrono in media mezz'ora al giorno su Twitter.

368
00:12:17,420 --> 00:12:20,500
Quindi si tratta di circa 120-130 milioni di ore utente al giorno,

369
00:12:20,500 --> 00:12:21,300
ed è in aumento.

370
00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:24,580
Quindi... ehm...

371
00:12:24,580 --> 00:12:25,760
Non abbiamo fatto niente.

372
00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:27,860
Per essere chiari, non abbiamo fatto niente di speciale.

373
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,100
Ho saputo in seguito che aveva pubblicato qualcosa su Twitter.

374
00:12:32,020 --> 00:12:35,240
Mm. Quindi è solo che Twitter ha molta attenzione da parte della gente.

375
00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:35,740
Ehm,

376
00:12:36,100 --> 00:12:36,440
COSÌ...

377
00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:38,760
E tende ad essere la gente che lo è,

378
00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:39,700
eh...

379
00:12:39,700 --> 00:12:42,540
Che leggono molto o sono interessati all'attualità,

380
00:12:42,580 --> 00:12:44,840
ehm, e, ehm...

381
00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:46,160
Generalmente sono piuttosto influenti.

382
00:12:46,740 --> 00:12:47,220
COSÌ...

383
00:12:47,220 --> 00:12:49,580
Ma la maggior parte delle persone che twittano sono le stesse persone,

384
00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:49,800
Giusto?

385
00:12:49,820 --> 00:12:51,600
Voglio dire, le persone che effettivamente twittano

386
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:52,800
dovrebbero solo leggerlo.

387
00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:53,220
Sì.

388
00:12:53,460 --> 00:12:54,500
Mi sento come se fosse...

389
00:12:54,500 --> 00:12:55,540
L'ho letto molte volte.

390
00:12:55,700 --> 00:12:58,880
È una percentuale molto piccola delle persone su Twitter,

391
00:12:58,980 --> 00:12:59,840
e sembra che...

392
00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:00,140
Sì.

393
00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:02,040
Vedi, ecco perché non twitto più,

394
00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:03,780
perché ora potresti essere il sindaco di Tweet Town.

395
00:13:03,780 --> 00:13:04,700
Sì.

396
00:13:04,940 --> 00:13:05,700
Sindaco di Tweet Town.

397
00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:07,180
Stiamo ottenendo un limite con quello.

398
00:13:07,180 --> 00:13:08,380
E sono contento...

399
00:13:08,380 --> 00:13:10,900
E mi piace che al sindaco piacciano le mie battute.

400
00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:12,860
Ma il motivo per cui non lo faccio più

401
00:13:12,860 --> 00:13:16,640
è perché la folla di ragazze cattive è ancora lì.

402
00:13:17,020 --> 00:13:18,800
E questo non è cambiato.

403
00:13:18,860 --> 00:13:21,800
Ad esempio, è troppo facile essere cancellati.

404
00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:25,680
E non so nemmeno cosa li faccia incazzare.

405
00:13:25,740 --> 00:13:27,140
Sono così pazzi, questi ragazzi.

406
00:13:27,580 --> 00:13:30,080
Mi sembra di camminare su un tetto con gli occhi bendati.

407
00:13:30,300 --> 00:13:31,580
Potrei cadere in qualsiasi momento.

408
00:13:31,580 --> 00:13:34,020
Quella era la cosa più innocua,

409
00:13:34,060 --> 00:13:37,080
ma è come, sai, ho detto che George Washington è stato un grande presidente.

410
00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:38,520
Bene, come osi.

411
00:13:38,780 --> 00:13:39,040
Sì.

412
00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:39,860
Si Esattamente.

413
00:13:39,900 --> 00:13:40,320
avevo dei difetti,

414
00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:41,460
Ma...

415
00:13:41,460 --> 00:13:42,500
Quindi come lo aggiusti,

416
00:13:42,500 --> 00:13:46,260
signor sindaco? ...strumentale nella creazione degli Stati Uniti, quindi...

417
00:13:46,260 --> 00:13:47,440
Sì. BENE,

418
00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:48,380
devi dire,

419
00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:49,680
tipo, cosa significa cancellato?

420
00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,260
Sai, voglio dire, sì, le persone ti attaccano su Twitter,

421
00:13:52,260 --> 00:13:54,840
questa è una cosa, ma francamente, aumenterà solo il coinvolgimento.

422
00:13:55,460 --> 00:13:56,980
Quindi lo ignorerei.

423
00:13:57,520 --> 00:13:58,960
Beh, è facile per te,

424
00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:00,560
perché non possono toglierti il lavoro.

425
00:14:00,560 --> 00:14:03,580
O uno dei tuoi dieci lavori principali,

426
00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:04,820
ma potrebbero prendere il mio,

427
00:14:04,820 --> 00:14:05,600
e lo hanno fatto una volta,

428
00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:06,200
A proposito.

429
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:06,820
Sì.

430
00:14:07,020 --> 00:14:07,480
Ok, bene, giusto.

431
00:14:07,580 --> 00:14:09,400
Sai, sono stato letteralmente cancellato.

432
00:14:09,900 --> 00:14:10,280
Letteralmente cancellato?

433
00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:12,600
Sì, voglio dire, tipo, lo spettacolo è cancellato.

434
00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:13,980
È come...

435
00:14:13,980 --> 00:14:15,680
Ok, quindi eri al Congresso,

436
00:14:16,140 --> 00:14:17,200
al Congresso l'altro giorno,

437
00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:18,980
parlando con Chuck Schumer dell'intelligenza artificiale.

438
00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:20,180
sono molto interessato a questo,

439
00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:21,780
perché sei stato su questo per anni.

440
00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:23,940
Ho sempre pensato che avevi ragione su questo.

441
00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:25,700
Penso che tu abbia ragione su quasi tutto.

442
00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:28,300
Voglio dire, facciamo più bambini e cresciamoli su Marte.

443
00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:29,100
Non capisco, ma va bene.

444
00:14:29,100 --> 00:14:29,860
BENE,

445
00:14:30,900 --> 00:14:32,860
Penso solo che dovremmo essere cauti

446
00:14:32,860 --> 00:14:35,200
sul declino della civiltà con...

447
00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:38,260
E abbiamo un calo dei tassi di natalità nella maggior parte dei luoghi,

448
00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:38,520
Sì.

449
00:14:38,740 --> 00:14:39,100
Giusto.

450
00:14:39,220 --> 00:14:41,300
E anche il crollo delle risorse.

451
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:43,300
No, no, le risorse andranno bene.

452
00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:44,940
Ma non stanno bene...

453
00:14:44,940 --> 00:14:45,940
Non stanno bene adesso.

454
00:14:46,820 --> 00:14:48,580
Senti, non sto suggerendo compiacimento.

455
00:14:49,380 --> 00:14:51,520
Vogliamo passare a un'economia energetica sostenibile

456
00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:52,580
il più rapidamente possibile,

457
00:14:52,820 --> 00:14:56,380
ma non corriamo alcun rischio di collasso delle risorse.

458
00:14:56,940 --> 00:14:58,440
Ma molte persone non hanno abbastanza cibo o acqua.

459
00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:00,540
Acqua.

460
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:02,460
Rimarremo senza acqua.

461
00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:04,260
Stanno finendo la sabbia.

462
00:15:04,700 --> 00:15:04,740
Sabbia.

463
00:15:04,740 --> 00:15:07,640
No, la Terra è composta per il 70% da acqua per superficie.

464
00:15:08,140 --> 00:15:09,400
Ma non puoi berlo.

465
00:15:10,420 --> 00:15:12,080
La dissalazione è assurdamente economica.

466
00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:13,760
Perché non lo facciamo, allora?

467
00:15:14,380 --> 00:15:14,900
Noi facciamo...

468
00:15:14,900 --> 00:15:15,280
È fatta.

469
00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:16,280
Hai molto tempo libero.

470
00:15:16,500 --> 00:15:16,960
È fatta.

471
00:15:17,260 --> 00:15:19,320
C'è molta desalinizzazione fatta.

472
00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:20,080
Ok, ma...

473
00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:20,740
C'è molta acqua.

474
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:21,420
Questo non è un problema.

475
00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:21,980
Voglio essere chiaro.

476
00:15:22,100 --> 00:15:22,540
Va bene.

477
00:15:22,580 --> 00:15:24,240
Quindi, ma parliamo di IA, perché,

478
00:15:24,580 --> 00:15:25,420
tipo, eri su questo suggerimento 10 anni fa quando nessun altro lo era.

479
00:15:25,420 --> 00:15:28,320
E ho sempre pensato,

480
00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:28,980
ha ragione.

481
00:15:29,140 --> 00:15:29,400
Perché?

482
00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:30,860
Perché ho visto troppi film.

483
00:15:31,260 --> 00:15:32,340
Tutto ciò che accade nei film,

484
00:15:32,340 --> 00:15:33,600
che accade nella vita reale.

485
00:15:34,300 --> 00:15:36,660
E, sai, se fai cose

486
00:15:36,660 --> 00:15:38,080
che sono molto più intelligenti di te,

487
00:15:38,580 --> 00:15:40,280
perché non dovrebbero diventare i tuoi signori?

488
00:15:40,620 --> 00:15:42,280
Quindi cosa hai detto a Chuck Schumer,

489
00:15:42,340 --> 00:15:43,340
e cosa stiamo facendo a riguardo?

490
00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,200
So che vuoi mettere in pausa l'intelligenza artificiale,

491
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,240
perché solo negli ultimi sei mesi con ChatGPT,

492
00:15:48,540 --> 00:15:49,920
che proveniva da un'azienda che hai fondato...

493
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:55,120
SÌ. BENE,

494
00:15:55,620 --> 00:15:58,640
Voglio dire, un mio amico ha una specie di modifica del rasoio di Occam.

495
00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:01,620
Sai, invece che la cosa più semplice sia la più probabile,

496
00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,020
come, il risultato più ironico è il più probabile.

497
00:16:05,700 --> 00:16:06,040
Giusto.

498
00:16:06,380 --> 00:16:06,760
SÌ.

499
00:16:07,460 --> 00:16:09,880
Quindi, per quanto riguarda l'intelligenza artificiale,

500
00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:10,900
Penso solo che dovremmo essere...

501
00:16:10,900 --> 00:16:24,500
Dovremmo avere una sorta di controllo normativo. Quindi, sai, per tutto ciò che rappresenta un pericolo per il pubblico, sia che si tratti di una specie di aereo, o qualcosa del genere, abbiamo una supervisione regolamentare, come un arbitro,

502
00:16:25,100 --> 00:16:27,840
essenzialmente, e assicurandosi che le aziende non taglino gli angoli.

503
00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,520
Quindi penso che da quando...

504
00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:35,560
Se si concorda sul fatto che l'intelligenza artificiale è un potenziale rischio per il pubblico,

505
00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:37,080
allora dovrebbe esserci un organismo di regolamentazione che sovrintende a ciò che le aziende stanno facendo,

506
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:49,480
in modo che non taglino gli angoli. E penso che sia un buon punto. Penso che sia un buon punto. Penso che sia un buon punto. E se non facciamo qualcosa...

507
00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:51,700
Preparami uno scenario nei prossimi due,

508
00:16:51,700 --> 00:16:53,520
cinque, dieci anni, se non si fa niente,

509
00:16:53,580 --> 00:16:55,360
perché siamo molto bravi a non fare niente,

510
00:16:55,700 --> 00:16:57,700
soprattutto quando si tratta di profitto,

511
00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,380
e questo è un grande motore di profitto ora per le aziende,

512
00:17:00,660 --> 00:17:02,700
vorranno solo competere tra loro.

513
00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:03,060
Voglio dire, ci sono persone come Ray Kurzweil,

514
00:17:03,060 --> 00:17:04,720
chi non pensa che sia affatto un problema. E penso che sia un buon punto. Penso che sia un buon punto. Penso che sia un buon punto. Voglio dire, ci sono persone come Ray Kurzweil,

515
00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:06,420
chi non pensa che sia affatto un problema.

516
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:12,360
In realtà, la previsione di Ray Kurzweil per la superintelligenza artificiale è il 2029.

517
00:17:12,540 --> 00:17:13,300
Non è lontano.

518
00:17:13,980 --> 00:17:14,460
Giusto.

519
00:17:14,700 --> 00:17:16,140
Ma lui non pensa che sia un problema,

520
00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,140
mentre persone come te e Bill Gates,

521
00:17:18,500 --> 00:17:21,480
e Stephen Hawking pensano che sia un problema.

522
00:17:22,620 --> 00:17:23,160
Sì, dipende.

523
00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:25,080
Se alcune persone vogliono vivere per sempre,

524
00:17:25,220 --> 00:17:26,740
o per un periodo di tempo molto più lungo,

525
00:17:26,860 --> 00:17:29,640
e vedono l'intelligenza artificiale come l'unico modo per...

526
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:33,860
La superintelligenza digitale è l'unica cosa che può capire come farli vivere per sempre.

527
00:17:34,180 --> 00:17:35,720
Penso che Kurzweil sia in quella categoria.

528
00:17:36,060 --> 00:17:37,640
Quindi preferirebbe avere l'intelligenza artificiale,

529
00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:39,680
intelligenza generale artificiale,

530
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:40,540
piuttosto che no,

531
00:17:41,020 --> 00:17:42,440
perché può capire la longevità.

532
00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:45,060
Quindi sei ottimista?

533
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:50,480
Ho letto nel tuo articolo su Rolling Stone, tempo fa, che dicevi che non puoi mai essere felice se non sei innamorato.

534
00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:53,600
Beh, puoi essere mezzo felice,

535
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:58,180
Credo. Voglio dire, ci sono due cose.

536
00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,020
Penso di essere molto felice,

537
00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,320
se sei felice in amore e ami il tuo lavoro,

538
00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:09,820
allora sarai, credo, pienamente felice se avrai una di queste due cose,

539
00:18:09,820 --> 00:18:11,060
sarai mezzo felice,

540
00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:12,180
sai, approssimativamente.

541
00:18:12,380 --> 00:18:16,940
Sento che il tema in molti dei tuoi lavori che collegano tutte queste cose diverse è la connessione.

542
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:19,460
Ad esempio, vuoi collegare le cose.

543
00:18:19,900 --> 00:18:21,680
Sai, vuoi connetterti sul

544
00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:24,400
Hyperloop, e vuoi collegarlo a Marte,

545
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:26,220
e persino Twitter.

546
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:26,800
Oppure collega 4.

547
00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:29,000
Tu vuoi...

548
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:30,080
Adoro quel gioco.

549
00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:31,400
Che cosa?

550
00:18:31,900 --> 00:18:37,240
Connect 4, sai, quando ottieni il...

551
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,300
Scusa, questa è una commedia, sai?

552
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:42,160
Ci metterò un po' di commedia.

553
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:45,640
È difficile per te,

554
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,340
perché quando hai comprato Twitter,

555
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:50,660
stai facendo quello che hai fatto

556
00:18:50,660 --> 00:18:52,020
quando sei subentrato...

557
00:18:52,020 --> 00:18:52,960
quando hai avviato Tesla.

558
00:18:53,180 --> 00:18:54,360
Hai vissuto in fabbrica,

559
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:54,640
Giusto?

560
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:56,760
Sento che è il tuo...

561
00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:57,680
quello è il tuo...

562
00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:58,840
il tuo schema.

563
00:18:59,340 --> 00:19:00,700
Tu entri in questa cosa,

564
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:01,580
e poi devi vivere

565
00:19:01,580 --> 00:19:03,140
in fabbrica per farlo funzionare.

566
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:03,620
Sì.

567
00:19:03,620 --> 00:19:04,720
Sei tornato in...

568
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:05,680
Ti sei trasferito in Texas,

569
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,580
poi sei tornato a San Francisco a causa di Twitter.

570
00:19:08,940 --> 00:19:11,760
Ho vissuto per un po' nella biblioteca di Twitter,

571
00:19:12,220 --> 00:19:13,000
SÌ.

572
00:19:13,460 --> 00:19:16,120
Ma penso che le cose siano ragionevolmente stabilizzate in questo momento.

573
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,420
Era solo sulla corsia preferenziale verso il fallimento

574
00:19:19,420 --> 00:19:22,280
dopo l'acquisizione, quindi ho dovuto intraprendere un'azione drastica

575
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:23,220
se non ci fosse altra scelta.

576
00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:25,020
Dico solo che è difficile per una donna.

577
00:19:25,020 --> 00:19:25,280
Sì.

578
00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:27,600
A, tipo, quando il tizio vive in fabbrica.

579
00:19:28,700 --> 00:19:29,220
SÌ.

580
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,280
Potrebbe essere un ostacolo.

581
00:19:35,300 --> 00:19:35,780
SÌ.

582
00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,500
Ma nel complesso, con, sai, la mia preoccupazione per Twitter

583
00:19:40,500 --> 00:19:41,800
era per...

584
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,060
è un po' la piazza della città digitale,

585
00:19:44,180 --> 00:19:48,800
ed è importante che ci siano sia la realtà che la percezione

586
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:53,000
di fiducia per una vasta gamma di punti di vista.

587
00:19:55,180 --> 00:19:57,320
E c'era molta censura in corso,

588
00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:01,140
e ne abbiamo scoperto molto con i file di Twitter,

589
00:20:01,260 --> 00:20:03,380
inclusa molta censura governativa,

590
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:05,060
Quale...

591
00:20:05,060 --> 00:20:09,180
APPLAUSI E'...

592
00:20:09,180 --> 00:20:11,740
Voglio dire, sembra che debba essere una violazione costituzionale,

593
00:20:11,820 --> 00:20:12,640
cosa stava succedendo lì.

594
00:20:13,380 --> 00:20:15,180
Quindi, e posso...

595
00:20:15,180 --> 00:20:16,180
dato che sono, tipo, un avido utente di Twitter,

596
00:20:16,180 --> 00:20:17,280
posso rilevarlo,

597
00:20:17,500 --> 00:20:18,600
tipo, qualcosa non va qui.

598
00:20:18,940 --> 00:20:22,220
Ed è proprio per questo che ho fatto l'acquisizione.

599
00:20:22,340 --> 00:20:24,460
Non perché pensassi che fosse un modo semplice per fare soldi

600
00:20:24,460 --> 00:20:25,200
o qualcosa di simile.

601
00:20:26,340 --> 00:20:28,220
Questo è...

602
00:20:28,220 --> 00:20:29,020
essendo sindaco della città di Twitter,

603
00:20:29,120 --> 00:20:30,060
Tweet città, o qualsiasi altra cosa,

604
00:20:30,860 --> 00:20:34,160
è decisamente come se ci fossero un sacco di frecce puntate su di te, tipo,

605
00:20:34,500 --> 00:20:35,080
volare verso di te.

606
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:35,760
Sì, naturalmente.

607
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:37,960
Ma sembri gestirlo bene.

608
00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:39,080
Spero che tu lo faccia.

609
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:41,320
Perché, guarda,

610
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,520
Voglio dire, i geni sono un po' eccentrici a volte,

611
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,040
ma il tuo cuore è sempre al posto giusto.

612
00:20:47,060 --> 00:20:48,800
Stavi cercando di sistemare questo mondo,

613
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,520
e, guarda, potrei parlarti per sempre.

614
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:52,300
Oggi non possiamo.

615
00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:53,440
Mi piacerebbe sballarmi con te.

616
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:54,800
Conosco un ottimo posto per farlo.

617
00:20:55,540 --> 00:20:57,560
Ma non posso dirti quanto ti apprezzo.

618
00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:59,980
So che hai molte scelte e posti in cui puoi andare.

619
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:02,500
Grazie, Elon Musk, signore e signori.

620
00:21:02,940 --> 00:21:04,500
Va bene, ci vediamo presto, Elon.

621
00:21:18,820 --> 00:21:20,160
Grazie.

Spanish transcription text:

BILL: Mi primer invitado es el hombre que hizo de los autos eléctricos una cosa, y actualmente está trabajando en el perfeccionamiento de cohetes reutilizables, viajes espaciales, conectando el cerebro humano directamente a las computadoras, conectando ciudades con trenes bala electromagnéticos, el sistema satelital Starlink que es tan importante para la guerra en Ucrania, y luego el martes, va a trabajar en esa cosa del túnel en el tráfico. También tuitea mucho. Elon Musk, aquí mismo. Mírate. Guau. ¿Recibí el orden completo de las cosas que haces en un día allí? Cuando estaba leyendo allí, dejé de lado lo del túnel al final.

ELON: ¿Trabajas en todas estas cosas? Sí, tengo muchos trabajos. ¿Haces todas estas cosas todos los días? ¿Trabajas en todos ellos en un solo día? No. Pero tengo un largo día de trabajo. Sí, trabajo mucho.

BILL: Bueno, estoy tan emocionado de que estés aquí, porque hacemos un programa en el que hablamos sobre los cambios que suceden en el mundo, pero solo hablamos. Hay muy pocas personas que realmente hacen que el cambio suceda. Tú eres una de esas personas. Probablemente. Sabes, solo quiero decir que amo a esta audiencia. Bueno, eres un tipo agradable. Gracias. Quiero decir, te atacan mucho. Ellas hacen. Y parece que te ríes, lo que creo que es fantástico. Me encanta que tengas sentido del humor, porque un tipo tan importante como tú que hace cambios podría usar tus poderes para el mal y no para el bien. El hecho de que... Sí, absolutamente. Podrías.

ELON: Por supuesto. Sí, nunca los usé para el mal.

BILL: No, lo sé. Pero la forma en que lo sé es porque tienes sentido del humor. Sí. Realmente lo haces.

ELON: Te lo juro.

BILL: Sí, te gusta reír. Te gusta ser gracioso. Quiero decir, me mato. Bien. Sí. Ya sabes, yo... A diferencia de alguien como Zuckerberg, de quien ni siquiera estoy seguro de que sea un chico de verdad. Sí.

ELON: De hecho, me encanta la comedia, y debería, ya sabes, como... Hace muchos años, en realidad estaba entre la audiencia aquí y vi tu programa.

BILL: ¿Ah, de verdad? Así que he sido un admirador de tu programa desde hace mucho tiempo. Bueno, gracias. Yo... yo... Déjame volver a decirte que eres un genio. Bueno. Así que... Pero esa siempre ha sido mi opinión, es que... Yo era estudiante de historia, y cuando estudias historia, te das cuenta de que, sabes, está la teoría del gran hombre, y habla de reyes y príncipes y reinas y presidentes. Es realmente la gente de tecnología la que cambia el mundo. Son las personas que reparten las cartas, ya sea fuego o electricidad, para bien o para mal, o la desmotadora de algodón o el iPhone o la bomba atómica. Esas son las cartas, y el resto de nosotros simplemente jugamos. ¿Estaría de acuerdo con esa evaluación?

ELON: Creo que la tecnología es lo que causa estos grandes cambios en la civilización. Entonces, obviamente, tienes cosas como, por ejemplo, Gutenberg Press, antes de lo cual era muy difícil conseguir libros. Eran muy raros. Incluso si tuvieras sed de conocimiento, realmente no podrías hacer nada al respecto, porque había muy pocos libros para leer. Así que... E Internet es algo más allá de Gutenberg Press, creo. Pero, ya sabes, es... Cuando vi por primera vez que Internet estaba surgiendo de una manera que el público en general pudiera usar, sentí que la humanidad en su conjunto estaba... desarrollando un sistema nervioso. Entonces, anteriormente, la forma en que viajaba la información sería por ósmosis, de una persona a otra, o una persona llamando a otra. Pero... El acceso a la información era muy limitado. Ahora, con Internet, es como tener un sistema nervioso. Es como si cualquier parte de la humanidad tuviera acceso a casi toda la información de la humanidad. Mmm. Por ejemplo, podrías estar en medio de la selva amazónica, con, digamos, una terminal Starlink y tener acceso a más información que la que tenía el presidente en 1980. Correcto. Bueno, cualquier cosa en tu teléfono.

BILL: Todo. Es... Sí. Bueno. Entonces, usted es uno de estos crupieres, estas personas que reparten las cartas y se las envían.

ELON: Yo también trato algunos nombres. Si tu puedes. Algunos, eh... Um...

BILL: Entonces... Entonces... Entonces, creo que mucha gente pensó, cuando compraste Twitter, que esta es una forma un tanto extravagante de haciendo cosas. Cuando compraste Twitter, esto es algo atípico. Como, ¿cómo es que esto... qué no encaja con estas otras cosas que estás haciendo? Nunca pensé eso. Porque creo que estás lidiando con grandes cuestiones y problemas de civilización, y yo... estaba en tu página. Creo que Twitter es uno de ellos. Quiero decir, has hablado sobre este virus de la mente despierta. Sí. En términos realmente apocalípticos. Yo no... Deberías explicar por qué no crees que es una hipérbole decir cosas como si estuviera empujando a la civilización hacia el suicidio. En primer lugar, ¿qué es el virus de la mente despierta? Y si no nos ocupamos de esto, no se puede hacer nada más. Dime por qué piensas eso.

ELON: Sí. Entonces...Creo que debemos ser muy cautelosos con cualquier cosa que sea antimeritocrática. Y cualquier cosa que sea... Eso resulte en la supresión de la libertad de expresión. Entonces, ya sabes, esos son dos de los aspectos del virus de la mente despierta que creo que son muy peligrosos. Es esoa menudo es antimeritocrático. No puedes cuestionar las cosas. Incluso el cuestionamiento es malo. Entonces, ya sabes, otra forma de... Casi anónimo sería cancelar la cultura. Y obviamente la gente ha intentado cancelarte muchas veces. Muchas veces. Sí. Quiero decir... Todas las semanas.

BILL: Sí. De izquierda y derecha. Lo he tenido de ambos lados. Sí. Y es interesante. Tú y yo estamos en ese pequeño grupo de personas. Tal vez sea un grupo más grande ahora. Sí. Quienes se llaman conservadores, quienes realmente no han cambiado. No te considero un conservador. Definitivamente...

ELON: Sí, como... al menos me considero un moderado. Ya sabes, así que... quiero decir... Al menos, como... He gastado una gran cantidad de mi energía vital construyendo energía sostenible, ya sabes, vehículos eléctricos, baterías, energía solar y esas cosas, para ayudar salvar el medio ambiente. Eso no es... Eso no es... No, no, no. No exactamente a la derecha.

BILL: No, dibujaste ese diagrama una vez, donde estás aquí. Me relacioné con eso. Y, como, el mundo ha cambiado. Bien. Me siento igual. Siento que muy a menudo el despertar no se basa en el liberalismo. Es lo opuesto al liberalismo. Puedo mencionarlo. Sí exactamente. Muchos ejemplos en los que es todo lo contrario, incluida la libertad de expresión.

ELON: La libertad de expresión es realmente muy importante. Y es extraño que hayamos llegado a este punto en el que la libertad de expresión solía ser un valor de izquierda o liberal. Y, sin embargo, vemos en, ya sabes, entre comillas a la izquierda, un deseo de censurar realmente. Y eso parece una locura. Quiero decir, creo que deberíamos estar extremadamente preocupados por cualquier cosa que socave la Primera Enmienda. Hay una razón para la Primera Enmienda. La Primera Enmienda se debe a que la gente venía de países donde no podía hablar libremente y donde decir ciertas cosas te metían en prisión. Y dijeron, bueno, no queremos eso aquí. Y, por cierto, en muchas partes del mundo, incluidas partes del mundo que la gente podría pensar que son relativamente similares a los Estados Unidos, las leyes del habla son draconianas. Inglaterra es bastante diferente. No nombraré ningún país, pero...

BILL: Inglaterra. ¿Por qué los protegemos?

ELON: No tienen la Primera Enmienda.

BILL: Es muy fácil probar la difamación en Inglaterra.

ELON: Mientras que aquí es casi. .. Me encanta Inglaterra. Pero... Sí, tú también. Pero no me gustaría decir algo incorrecto. Sí. Podría ser demandado más fácilmente. Quiero decir, hay leyes en Francia. Creo que si niegas el Holocausto, lo cual me parece abominable, pero también creo que debería ser parte de la libertad de expresión, te pueden meter en la cárcel. Bien, entonces esto... Realmente no puedo enfatizar esto lo suficiente. Debemos... Debemos proteger la libertad de expresión. Y la libertad de expresión solo importa... Solo es relevante cuando alguien que no te gusta dice algo que no te gusta. Porque obviamente, el discurso que te gusta es...

BILL: Sí.

ELON: Sabes, es fácil. Así que es... Y es... Lo que pasa con la censura es que, para aquellos que la defienden, solo recuerden, en algún momento, eso volverá sobre ustedes.

BILL: APLAUSOS Entonces... Este... virus de la mente despertada, ¿cómo empezó? ¿Fueron murciélagos? ¿Fue un... Sí. ¿Escapar de un laboratorio? Quiero decir, ¿cuál es su evaluación de...

ELON: Porque es bastante reciente.

BILL: Por qué... ¿Cómo empezó y por qué?

ELON : Estaba tratando de averiguar de dónde viene. Creo que en realidad se ha estado gestando durante mucho tiempo, en el sentido de que... creo que ha estado ocurriendo durante un tiempo. Es... Y... La cantidad de adoctrinamiento que está ocurriendo en las escuelas y universidades es, creo, mucho más allá de lo que los padres se dan cuenta. Y solo me di cuenta de esto un poco tarde. La experiencia que tuvimos en la escuela secundaria y la universidad no es la experiencia que tienen los niños de hoy. Y no lo ha sido durante, no sé, 10 años, tal vez 20 años.

BILL: Entonces... ¿Los padres también son una gran parte del problema?

ELON : Ellos... Bueno, supongo que en algunos casos los padres... Pero creo que, como, los... Los padres generalmente no son conscientes de lo que se les enseña a sus hijos. O lo que no se les está enseñando.

BILL: Están dejando que los niños piensen que son iguales.

ELON: Quiero decir... Sí, déjame darte una ejemplo que me dijo un hombre justo, que, ya sabes, sus hijas van a la universidad en... Lo siento, van a la escuela secundaria en el Área de la Bahía. Y... Y les estaba preguntando, bueno, ¿quiénes son los... Ya sabes, quiénes son los primeros presidentes de los Estados Unidos? Podrían nombrar a Washington, pero... Y yo dije, bueno, ¿qué sabes de él? Bueno, él era dueño de esclavos. ¿Qué otra cosa? Bien. Exactamente. Nada. Bien. Como, está bien, eso es... Tal vez deberías saber más que eso. ¿Sabes? Sí. Sí.

BILL: Y ese es el virus Waltz-Mind. Exactamente. Sí.

ELON: Sí. Exactamente. Es como... Ya sabes, la... Ya sabes, la esclavitud es obviamente una institución horrible, pero aún deberíamos saber más sobre George Washington que eso.

BILL: Y por cierto, uno que fue practicado en todo el mundo,para siempre, desde el principio de los tiempos, por todas las razas, incluidas las personas de color. Lamento decirte eso. Es enorme en la Biblia. Absolutamente. Así que... A la Biblia le encanta. Somos...

ELON: Yo... ¿En serio? Sí. Son bastante estrictos con respecto a, ya sabes, no tomes al esclavo de otra persona en ese tipo de cosas.

BILL: Correcto, pero nadie dice nunca, simplemente no lo hagas.

ELON: No. ellos no En ningún momento dice que la esclavitud es mala en la Biblia. No. No. No. No lo condenan en absoluto. Simplemente... Entonces...

BILL: Entonces es... Pero a Twitter no le está yendo mal, ¿verdad? Quiero decir, vi hoy que Tucker Carlson fue despedido recientemente. Acabas de estar en su programa y perdió su trabajo, así que espero que este no sea uno viejo. Sí. Sí. Pero... Con suerte, sí.

ELON: ¿Qué, eres el ángel de la muerte? Sí, no, exactamente. No soy la Mary tifoidea de los programas de entrevistas. Uh... Pero su... Por alguna razón, la gente simplemente es despedida después de eso.

BILL: Pero su diatriba ayer u hoy en Twitter... Creo que fue ayer o algo así.

ELON: O hace un par de días. Hizo más que cualquier monólogo de noticias por cable. Sí. O algo así. ¿Está bien? Bueno, Twitter tiene una audiencia tremenda. Así que hay 250 millones de personas que pasan un promedio de media hora al día en Twitter. Por lo tanto, se trata de 120 a 130 millones de horas de usuario por día, y ha ido en aumento. Así que... Um... No hicimos nada. Para ser claros, no hicimos nada especial en absoluto. Después me enteré de que había publicado algo en Twitter. Mm. Así que es solo que Twitter tiene mucha atención de la gente. Uh, entonces... Y tiende a ser la gente que, uh... Que lee mucho o está interesada en eventos actuales, um, y, um... Generalmente son bastante influyentes.

BILL: Entonces... Pero la mayoría de las personas que tuitean son las mismas personas, ¿verdad? Quiero decir, se supone que las personas que realmente tuitean solo deben leerlo. Sí. Siento que eso es... He leído esto muchas veces. Es un porcentaje muy pequeño de la gente en Twitter, y parece que... Sí. Mira, esta es la razón por la que ya no tuiteo, porque ahora puedes ser el alcalde de Tweet Town. Sí. Alcalde de la ciudad de Tweet. Estamos recibiendo un límite con eso. Y me alegro... Y me gusta que al alcalde le gusten mis bromas. Pero la razón por la que ya no lo hago es porque la multitud de chicas malas sigue ahí. Y eso no ha cambiado. Como, es demasiado fácil ser cancelado. Y ni siquiera sé qué les molesta. Están tan locos, estos niños. Me siento como si estuviera caminando sobre un techo con los ojos vendados. Podría caerme en cualquier momento. Eso fue lo más inocuo, pero es como, ya sabes, dije que George Washington fue un gran presidente. Bueno, como te atreves.

ELON: Si. Si, exacto. Tuve algunos defectos, pero... Entonces, ¿cómo soluciona eso, Sr. Alcalde? ...instrumental en la creación de los Estados Unidos, así que... Sí. Bueno, tienes que decir, como, ¿qué significa cancelado? Sabes, quiero decir, sí, la gente te ataca en Twitter, eso es una cosa, pero francamente, eso solo aumentará el compromiso. Así que simplemente lo ignoraría.

BILL: Bueno, eso es fácil para ti, porque no pueden quitarte el trabajo. O cualquiera de sus diez trabajos principales, pero podrían tomar el mío, y lo hicieron una vez, por cierto.

ELON: Sí. Bueno, bueno, justo. Sabes, fui, como, literalmente cancelado. ¿Literalmente cancelado? Sí, quiero decir, como, el espectáculo se cancela. Es como... Bueno, estabas en el Congreso, en el Congreso el otro día, hablando con Chuck Schumer sobre la IA. Estoy muy interesado en esto, porque has estado en esto durante años. Siempre he pensado que tenías razón en esto. Creo que tienes razón en casi todo. Quiero decir, tengamos más bebés y criémoslos en Marte. No entiendo eso, pero bueno. Bueno, creo que deberíamos tener cuidado con el declive de la civilización con... Y tenemos tasas de natalidad que caen en picado en la mayoría de los lugares, sí.

BILL: Correcto. Y también la caída de los recursos.

ELON: No, no, los recursos estarán bien.

BILL: Pero no están bien... No están bien ahora. Mira, no estoy sugiriendo complacencia. Queremos pasar a una economía de energía sostenible lo más rápido posible, pero no estamos en peligro de colapso de los recursos. Pero mucha gente no tiene suficiente comida o agua. Agua. Nos quedaremos sin agua. Se están quedando sin arena.

ELON: Arena. No, la Tierra tiene un 70 % de agua por área superficial. Pero no puedes beber eso. La desalinización es absurdamente barata. ¿Por qué no lo hacemos, entonces? Lo hacemos...

BILL: Está hecho. Tienes mucho tiempo libre. Se hace. Hay mucha desalinización hecha. Está bien, pero... Hay mucha agua. Esto no es un problema. Quiero ser claro. Está bien. Entonces, hablemos de la IA, porque tú estabas en este consejo hace 10 años cuando nadie más lo estaba. Y siempre pensé, tiene razón. ¿Por qué? Porque he visto demasiadas películas.Todo lo que sucede en las películas, eso sucede en la vida real. Y, ya sabes, si haces cosas que son mucho más inteligentes que tú, ¿por qué no se convertirían en tus señores supremos? Entonces, ¿qué le dijiste a Chuck Schumer y qué estamos haciendo al respecto?¿este? Sé que quieres hacer una pausa en la IA, porque solo en los últimos seis meses con ChatGPT, que vino de una empresa que empezaste... Sí. Bueno, quiero decir, un amigo mío tiene una especie de modificación de la navaja de afeitar de Occam.

ELON: Ya sabes, en lugar de que lo más simple sea lo más probable, el resultado más irónico es lo más probable. Bien. Sí. Entonces, con respecto a la IA, creo que deberíamos ser... Deberíamos tener algún tipo de supervisión regulatoria. Entonces, ya sabes, para cualquier cosa que sea un peligro para el público, ya sea una especie de avión, o algo así, tenemos cierta supervisión regulatoria, como un árbitro, esencialmente, y nos aseguramos de que las empresas no tomen atajos. . Así que creo que dado que... Si uno está de acuerdo en que la IA es un riesgo potencial para el público, entonces debería haber algún organismo regulador que supervise lo que hacen las empresas, para que no tomen atajos. Y creo que ese es un buen punto. Creo que ese es un buen punto. Creo que ese es un buen punto. Y si no hacemos algo...

BILL: Diseñe un escenario para mí en los próximos dos, cinco, diez años, si no se hace nada, porque somos muy buenos para no hacer nada, especialmente cuando se trata de ganancias, y este es un gran motor de ganancias ahora para las empresas, van a querer competir entre sí. Quiero decir, hay gente como Ray Kurzweil, que no cree que sea un problema en absoluto. Y creo que ese es un buen punto. Creo que ese es un buen punto. Creo que ese es un buen punto. Quiero decir, hay gente como Ray Kurzweil, que no cree que sea un problema en absoluto.

ELON: En realidad, la predicción de Ray Kurzweil para la superinteligencia artificial es 2029. No está muy lejos.

BILL: Correcto. Pero él no cree que sea un problema, mientras que la gente como tú, Bill Gates y Stephen Hawking piensan que es un problema.

ELON: Sí, depende. Si algunas personas quieren vivir para siempre, o por un período de tiempo mucho más largo, y ven a la IA como la única forma de... La superinteligencia digital es lo único que puede descubrir cómo lograr que vivan para siempre. Creo que Kurzweil está en esa categoría. Así que preferiría tener IA, inteligencia general artificial, que no tenerla, porque puede determinar la longevidad.

BILL: Entonces, ¿eres optimista? Leí en tu artículo de Rolling Stone que dijiste que nunca puedes ser feliz a menos que estés enamorado.

ELON: Bueno, puedes ser medio feliz, supongo. Quiero decir, hay dos cosas. Creo que ser muy feliz, si eres feliz en el amor y amas tu trabajo, entonces serás, creo, completamente feliz, si tienes una de esas dos cosas, serás medio feliz, ¿sabes? aproximadamente.

BILL: Siento que el tema en muchos de tus trabajos que conectan todas estas cosas diferentes es la conexión. Como, quieres conectar cosas. Ya sabes, quieres conectarte en el Hyperloop, y quieres conectarlo a Marte, e incluso a Twitter. O Conecta 4. Quieres...

ELON: Me encanta ese juego. ¿Qué? Conecta 4, ya sabes, cuando obtienes el... Lo siento, esto es una comedia, ¿sabes?

BILL: Voy a lanzar algo de comedia allí. Es difícil para ti, porque cuando compraste Twitter, estás haciendo lo mismo que hiciste cuando asumiste... cuando empezaste Tesla. Vivías en la fábrica, ¿verdad? Siento que ese es tu... ese es tu... tu patrón. Te metes en esto y luego tienes que vivir en la fábrica para que funcione. Sí. Has vuelto... Te mudaste a Texas, luego volviste a San Francisco por Twitter.

ELON: Estuve viviendo en la biblioteca de Twitter por un tiempo, sí. Pero creo que las cosas están razonablemente estabilizadas en este momento. Estaba en la vía rápida a la bancarrota después de la adquisición, así que tuve que tomar medidas drásticas si no había otra opción.

BILL: Solo digo que es difícil para una mujer. Sí. Como cuando el tipo vive en la fábrica. Sí. Eso podría ser un tropiezo.

ELON: Sí. Pero en general, con, ya sabes, mi preocupación con Twitter era... es algo así como la plaza del pueblo digital, y es importante que exista tanto la realidad como la percepción de confianza para una amplia gama de puntos de vista. Y había mucha censura en curso, y descubrimos mucho de eso con los archivos de Twitter, incluida mucha censura impulsada por el gobierno, que... APLAUSOS Es... quiero decir, parece que eso tiene ser una violación constitucional, lo que estaba pasando allí. Entonces, y puedo... ya que soy un ávido usuario de Twitter, puedo detectar que algo no está bien aquí. Y esa es realmente la razón por la que hice la adquisición. No fue porque pensara que esta era una manera fácil de ganar dinero o algo así. Esto es... ser alcalde de la ciudad de Twitter, de la ciudad de Tweet, o lo que sea, definitivamente es como si hubiera muchas flechas apuntándote, como volando hacia ti.

BILL: Sí, por supuesto.Pero pareces manejar eso bien. Espero que lo hagas. Porque, mira, quiero decir, los genios van a ser un poco extravagantes a veces, pero tu corazón siempre está en el lugar correcto. Estabas tratando de arreglar este mundo y, mira, podría hablar contigo.para siempre. No podemos hoy. Me encantaría drogarme contigo. Conozco un gran lugar para hacerlo. Pero no puedo decirte cuánto te aprecio. Sé que tienes muchas opciones y lugares a los que puedes ir. Gracias, Elon Musk, damas y caballeros. Muy bien, te veré pronto, Elon. Gracias.

Spanish transcription subtitles:

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00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,100
Mi primer invitado es el hombre que hizo de los autos eléctricos una cosa,

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y actualmente está trabajando en el perfeccionamiento de cohetes reutilizables,

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viajes espaciales, conectando el cerebro humano directamente a las computadoras,

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conectando ciudades con trenes bala electromagnéticos,

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el sistema satelital Starlink que es tan importante para la guerra en Ucrania,

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00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:16,840
y luego el martes,

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él va a trabajar en esa cosa del túnel en el tráfico.

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También tuitea mucho.

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Elon Musk, aquí mismo.

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Mírate.

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Guau.

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¿Recibí el orden completo de las cosas que haces en un día allí?

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Cuando estaba leyendo allí,

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Dejé fuera lo del túnel al final.

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¿Trabajas en todas estas cosas?

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Sí, tengo muchos trabajos.

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¿Haces todas estas cosas todos los días?

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¿Trabajas en todos ellos en un solo día?

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No.

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Pero tengo un largo día de trabajo.

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Sí,

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entonces trabajo mucho.

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Bueno, estoy tan emocionado de que estés aquí.

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porque hacemos un programa donde hablamos de los cambios que suceden en el mundo,

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pero solo hablamos.

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Hay muy pocas personas que realmente hacen que el cambio suceda.

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Tú eres una de esas personas.

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Probablemente.

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Sabes,

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Solo quiero decir que amo a esta audiencia.

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Bueno, eres un tipo agradable.

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Gracias. Quiero decir,

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te atacan mucho.

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Ellas hacen.

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Y parece que te ríes,

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que me parece fantástico.

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Me encanta que tengas sentido del humor,

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porque un tipo tan importante como tú que hace

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Los cambios podrían usar tus poderes para el mal y no para el bien.

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El hecho de que...

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Si absolutamente.

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Tú podrías.

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Por supuesto.

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Sí, nunca los usé para el mal.

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No yo se.

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Pero la forma en que lo sé es porque tienes sentido del humor.

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Sí.

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Realmente lo haces.

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Te juro que sí.

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Sí, te gusta reír.

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Te gusta ser gracioso.

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Quiero decir, me mato.

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Bien.

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Sí.

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Sabes,

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I...

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A diferencia de alguien como Zuckerberg,

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quien ni siquiera estoy seguro es un chico de verdad.

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Sí.

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De hecho, me encanta la comedia,

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y yo, ya sabes, como...

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Hace muchos años, en realidad estaba entre la audiencia aquí.

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y vi tu programa.

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¿Ah, de verdad?

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Así que he sido un admirador de tu programa desde hace mucho tiempo.

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Oh bien,

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gracias.

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I...

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I...

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Permíteme volver a decirte que eres un genio.

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Bueno.

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Entonces...

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Pero esa siempre ha sido mi opinión,

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es eso...

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Yo era un estudiante de historia,

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y cuando estudias historia,

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lo que te das cuenta es que,

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ya sabes, está la teoría del gran hombre,

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y hablan de reyes

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y príncipes y reinas y presidentes.

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Es realmente la gente de tecnología la que cambia el mundo.

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Son las personas que reparten las cartas,

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ya sea fuego o electricidad,

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para bien o para mal,

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o la desmotadora de algodón o el iPhone

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o la bomba atómica.

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Esas son las cartas,

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y el resto de nosotros simplemente jugamos.

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¿Estaría de acuerdo con esa evaluación?

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Creo que la tecnología es lo que provoca estos grandes cambios en la civilización.

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Entonces, obviamente, tienes cosas como,

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digamos, la prensa de Gutenberg,

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antes de lo cual era muy difícil conseguir libros.

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Eran muy raros.

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Incluso si tuvieras sed de conocimiento,

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realmente no pudiste hacer nada al respecto,

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porque había muy pocos libros para leer.

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Entonces...

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E Internet es algo

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más allá de la Gutenberg Press, creo.

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Pero, ya sabes, es...

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Cuando vi nacer Internet por primera vez

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de manera que el público en general pueda usarlo,

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00:03:48,580 --> 00:03:54,540
se sentía como si la humanidad en su conjunto fuera...

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00:03:54,540 --> 00:03:55,760
desarrollo de un sistema nervioso.

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Entonces, anteriormente, la forma en que viajaría la información

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seria por osmosis

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una persona a otra,

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o una persona llamando a otra.

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Pero...

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El acceso a la información era muy limitado.

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Ahora, con Internet,

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es como tener un sistema nervioso.

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Es como si cualquier parte de la humanidad tuviera acceso

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a casi toda la información de la humanidad.

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Mmm. Podrías estar en medio de la selva amazónica,

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con, digamos, un terminal Starlink, y tener acceso a más información

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de lo que hizo el presidente en 1980. Correcto.

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Bueno, cualquier cosa en tu teléfono.

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Todo.

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Es...

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Sí.

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Bueno.

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Entonces, usted es uno de estos comerciantes,

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estas personas que reparten las cartas y te las envían.

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Trato algunos nombres,

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también. Si tu puedes.

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Alguno,

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eh... eh...

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Entonces...

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Entonces...

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Entonces, creo que mucha gente pensó,

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cuando compraste Twitter,

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que esta es una especie de forma extravagante de hacer las cosas. Cuando compraste Twitter,

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que esto es algo atípico.

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Como, ¿cómo funciona esto...?

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00:04:55,300 --> 00:04:57,880
¿Qué no encaja con estas otras cosas que estás haciendo?

137
00:04:57,940 --> 00:04:59,260
Nunca pensé eso.

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Porque creo que estás lidiando con grandes problemas de civilización.

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y problemas, y yo...

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estaba justo en tu página.

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Creo que Twitter es uno de ellos.

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Quiero decir, has hablado sobre este virus de la mente despierta.

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Sí.

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En términos realmente apocalípticos.

145
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No...

146
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Deberías explicar por qué no crees que sea una hipérbole.

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decir cosas como si estuviera empujando a la civilización hacia el suicidio.

148
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En primer lugar, ¿qué es el virus de la mente despierta?

149
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Y si no nos ocupamos de esto,

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no se puede hacer nada más.

151
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Dime por qué piensas eso.

152
00:05:28,140 --> 00:05:28,360
Sí.

153
00:05:29,020 --> 00:05:30,500
Entonces...

154
00:05:30,500 --> 00:05:34,800
Creo que debemos ser muy cautelosos con cualquier cosa que sea antimeritocrática.

155
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Y cualquier cosa que sea...

156
00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,560
Eso resulta en la supresión de la libertad de expresión.

157
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Entonces,

158
00:05:43,780 --> 00:05:46,140
ya sabes, esos son dos de los aspectos del virus de la mente despierta que creo que son muy peligrosos.

159
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Es que muchas veces es antimeritocrático.

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No puedes cuestionar las cosas.

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Incluso el cuestionamiento es malo.

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Entonces tú sabes,

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otra forma de...

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Casi anónimo sería cancelar la cultura.

165
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Y obviamente la gente ha intentado cancelarte muchas veces.

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Muchas veces.

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Sí.

168
00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:05,780
Quiero decir...

169
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Cada semana.

170
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Sí.

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00:06:07,860 --> 00:06:09,660
De izquierda y derecha.

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Lo he tenido de ambos lados.

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Sí.

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Y es interesante.

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00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:13,940
tú y yo somos los dos,

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como, en ese pequeño grupo de personas. Tal vez sea un grupo más grande ahora.

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00:06:17,060 --> 00:06:19,000
Sí. que se llaman conservadores,

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que en realidad no ha cambiado.

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No te considero un conservador.

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Yo definitívamente...

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Sí, como...

182
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Yo al menos me considero un moderado.

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Ya sabes, entonces...

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00:06:29,460 --> 00:06:30,680
Quiero decir...

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00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:32,320
Al menos, como...

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00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,640
He gastado una gran cantidad de mi energía vital

187
00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:38,020
construyendo energía sostenible, ya sabes, vehículos eléctricos,

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y baterías, y energía solar y esas cosas,

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para ayudar a salvar el medio ambiente.

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Eso no es un... Eso no es un...

191
00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:44,360
No no,

192
00:06:44,780 --> 00:06:45,040
No.

193
00:06:48,740 --> 00:06:49,920
No exactamente de extrema derecha.

194
00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,460
No, dibujaste ese diagrama una vez,

195
00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:54,300
donde estás aquí.

196
00:06:54,540 --> 00:06:55,600
Me relacioné con eso.

197
00:06:55,780 --> 00:06:57,260
Y, como, el mundo ha cambiado.

198
00:06:57,280 --> 00:06:57,620
Bien.

199
00:06:57,620 --> 00:06:58,660
Me siento igual.

200
00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,340
Siento que muy a menudo el despertar no se basa en el liberalismo.

201
00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:03,760
Es lo opuesto al liberalismo.

202
00:07:03,900 --> 00:07:04,220
Puedo mencionarlo.

203
00:07:04,220 --> 00:07:04,960
Sí exactamente.

204
00:07:05,060 --> 00:07:06,640
Muchos ejemplos donde es lo contrario,

205
00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:07,820
incluida la libertad de expresión.

206
00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:10,720
La libertad de expresión es realmente extremadamente importante.

207
00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:14,100
Y es extraño que hayamos llegado a este punto en el que,

208
00:07:14,100 --> 00:07:17,260
como, la libertad de expresión solía ser un valor de izquierda o liberal.

209
00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,800
Y sin embargo vemos desde,

210
00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:22,560
ya sabes, las comillas a la izquierda,

211
00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:25,460
un deseo de censurar realmente.

212
00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,200
Y eso parece una locura.

213
00:07:29,300 --> 00:07:36,920
Quiero decir, creo que deberíamos estar extremadamente preocupados por cualquier cosa que socave la Primera Enmienda.

214
00:07:37,060 --> 00:07:38,340
Hay una razón para la Primera Enmienda.

215
00:07:38,340 --> 00:07:41,720
La Primera Enmienda es porque la gente vino de países

216
00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:43,540
donde no podían hablar libremente

217
00:07:43,540 --> 00:07:47,800
y donde decir ciertas cosas te llevaría a la cárcel.

218
00:07:48,460 --> 00:07:48,940
Y eran como,

219
00:07:48,980 --> 00:07:50,060
Bueno, no queremos eso aquí.

220
00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:51,320
Y por cierto,

221
00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:52,760
en muchas partes del mundo,

222
00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,760
incluyendo partes del mundo que la gente podría pensar que son relativamente similares a los Estados Unidos,

223
00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:00,540
las leyes del habla son draconianas.

224
00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:02,340
Inglaterra es bastante diferente.

225
00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:06,120
No nombraré ningún país, pero...

226
00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:06,680
Inglaterra.

227
00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:08,380
¿Por qué los protegemos?

228
00:08:08,460 --> 00:08:09,520
No tienen la Primera Enmienda.

229
00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:12,760
Es muy fácil probar la difamación en Inglaterra.

230
00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:13,480
Mientras que aquí es casi...

231
00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:14,140
Amo Inglaterra.

232
00:08:14,780 --> 00:08:14,840
Pero...

233
00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:15,400
Si tu tambien.

234
00:08:15,780 --> 00:08:17,960
Pero no me gustaría decir algo incorrecto.

235
00:08:18,620 --> 00:08:19,080
Sí.

236
00:08:19,460 --> 00:08:20,720
Podría ser demandado más fácilmente.

237
00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:22,880
Quiero decir, hay leyes en Francia.

238
00:08:23,020 --> 00:08:24,420
Creo que si niegas el Holocausto,

239
00:08:24,420 --> 00:08:26,460
que me parece abominable,

240
00:08:26,540 --> 00:08:28,600
pero también creo que debería ser parte de la libertad de expresión,

241
00:08:29,140 --> 00:08:30,680
te pueden meter en la carcel.

242
00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:31,380
Bueno,

243
00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:32,380
así que esto...

244
00:08:32,380 --> 00:08:34,420
Realmente no puedo enfatizar esto lo suficiente.

245
00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:36,280
Debemos...

246
00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:38,140
Debemos proteger la libertad de expresión.

247
00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:40,180
Y la libertad de expresión solo importa...

248
00:08:40,180 --> 00:08:42,520
Solo es relevante cuando es alguien que no te gusta.

249
00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:44,000
decir algo que no te gusta.

250
00:08:44,860 --> 00:08:47,160
Porque obviamente, el discurso que te gusta es...

251
00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:47,500
Sí.

252
00:08:47,500 --> 00:08:48,120
Ya sabes, es fácil.

253
00:08:48,780 --> 00:08:50,680
Entonces es...

254
00:08:50,680 --> 00:08:51,800
Y es...

255
00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:52,660
Lo que pasa con la censura es que,

256
00:08:52,660 --> 00:08:55,200
para aquellos que lo defienden,

257
00:08:55,740 --> 00:08:58,260
solo recuerda, en algún momento, eso volverá sobre ti.

258
00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:03,780
Aplausos Entonces...

259
00:09:03,780 --> 00:09:05,760
Este...

260
00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:09,060
virus de la mente despertada, ¿cómo comenzó?

261
00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:09,960
¿Fueron murciélagos?

262
00:09:10,100 --> 00:09:11,040
¿Fue un...

263
00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:11,380
Sí.

264
00:09:11,380 --> 00:09:12,680
¿Escapar de un laboratorio?

265
00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,120
Quiero decir, ¿cuál es su evaluación de...

266
00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:16,540
Porque es bastante reciente.

267
00:09:17,340 --> 00:09:18,160
Por qué...

268
00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:19,140
¿Cómo empezó y por qué?

269
00:09:19,140 --> 00:09:24,160
Estaba tratando de averiguar de dónde viene.

270
00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:25,820
Creo que en realidad se ha estado gestando durante mucho tiempo,

271
00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:28,440
en eso es...

272
00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:31,040
Creo que ha estado sucediendo por un tiempo.

273
00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:33,760
Él...

274
00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:35,760
Y...

275
00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:40,840
La cantidad de adoctrinamiento que está ocurriendo en las escuelas y universidades es,

276
00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:42,520
Creo que mucho más allá de lo que los padres se dan cuenta.

277
00:09:44,140 --> 00:09:46,120
Y solo me di cuenta de esto un poco tarde.

278
00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:55,120
La experiencia que tuvimos en la escuela secundaria y la universidad no es la experiencia que tienen los niños de hoy.

279
00:09:56,140 --> 00:09:58,260
Y no ha sido por, no sé,

280
00:09:58,980 --> 00:10:00,520
10 años, tal vez 20 años.

281
00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:02,640
Entonces...

282
00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,360
¿Son los propios padres también una gran parte del problema?

283
00:10:06,100 --> 00:10:06,500
Ellos...

284
00:10:06,500 --> 00:10:06,820
Bien,

285
00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:09,900
Supongo que en algunos casos los padres...

286
00:10:09,900 --> 00:10:10,640
Pero creo que, como,

287
00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:11,920
el...

288
00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,620
Los padres generalmente no son conscientes de lo que se les está enseñando a sus hijos.

289
00:10:14,860 --> 00:10:15,100
O lo que no se les está enseñando.

290
00:10:15,100 --> 00:10:19,680
Están dejando que los niños piensen que son iguales.

291
00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:21,180
Quiero decir...

292
00:10:21,180 --> 00:10:24,340
Sí, déjame darte un ejemplo que me dijo un hombre justo,

293
00:10:24,740 --> 00:10:27,820
en el que, ya sabes, sus hijas van a la universidad en...

294
00:10:27,820 --> 00:10:29,720
Lo siento, ve a la escuela secundaria en el Área de la Bahía.

295
00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:31,820
Y...

296
00:10:31,820 --> 00:10:33,180
Y les estaba preguntando,

297
00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:36,080
como, bueno, ¿quiénes son los...

298
00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,380
Ya sabes, ¿quiénes son los primeros presidentes de los Estados Unidos?

299
00:10:38,900 --> 00:10:40,360
Podrían nombrar a Washington,

300
00:10:40,660 --> 00:10:41,180
pero...

301
00:10:41,180 --> 00:10:42,020
Y yo dije, bueno, ¿qué sabes de él?

302
00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:42,920
Bueno, él era dueño de esclavos.

303
00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:43,580
¿Qué otra cosa?

304
00:10:43,580 --> 00:10:45,200
Bien. Exactamente. Nada.

305
00:10:46,340 --> 00:10:46,540
Bien.

306
00:10:46,580 --> 00:10:47,960
Como, está bien, eso es...

307
00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:49,720
Tal vez deberías saber más que eso.

308
00:10:50,180 --> 00:10:50,500
¿Sabes?

309
00:10:50,820 --> 00:10:51,120
Sí.

310
00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:51,700
Sí.

311
00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,180
Y ese es el virus Waltz-Mind.

312
00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:55,460
Exactamente. Sí.

313
00:10:55,980 --> 00:10:56,080
Sí.

314
00:10:57,180 --> 00:10:57,880
Exactamente.

315
00:10:58,160 --> 00:10:59,600
Es como...

316
00:10:59,600 --> 00:10:59,740
Sabes,

317
00:11:00,900 --> 00:11:01,940
el...

318
00:11:01,940 --> 00:11:05,160
Sabes, la esclavitud es obviamente una institución horrible,

319
00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,720
pero aún deberíamos saber más sobre George Washington que eso.

320
00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:09,320
Y por cierto,

321
00:11:09,340 --> 00:11:11,100
uno que se practicaba en todo el mundo,

322
00:11:11,380 --> 00:11:14,020
para siempre, desde el principio de los tiempos, por todas las razas,

323
00:11:14,540 --> 00:11:15,380
incluidas las personas de color.

324
00:11:15,540 --> 00:11:16,440
Lamento decirte eso.

325
00:11:16,680 --> 00:11:17,800
Es enorme en la Biblia.

326
00:11:18,260 --> 00:11:18,540
Absolutamente.

327
00:11:19,020 --> 00:11:19,220
Entonces...

328
00:11:19,220 --> 00:11:19,800
Biblia le encanta.

329
00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:20,840
Eran...

330
00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:21,940
I...

331
00:11:21,940 --> 00:11:22,340
¿En realidad?

332
00:11:22,340 --> 00:11:22,660
Sí.

333
00:11:22,820 --> 00:11:24,500
Son bastante estrictos con respecto a

334
00:11:24,780 --> 00:11:26,780
como, ya sabes, no tomes al esclavo de otra persona en ese tipo de cosas.

335
00:11:26,780 --> 00:11:28,040
Cierto, pero nadie dice nunca,

336
00:11:28,380 --> 00:11:29,020
simplemente no lo hagas.

337
00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:29,680
ellos no

338
00:11:29,700 --> 00:11:30,500
ellos no

339
00:11:30,680 --> 00:11:32,900
En ningún momento dice que la esclavitud es mala en la Biblia.

340
00:11:33,300 --> 00:11:33,620
No no.

341
00:11:34,020 --> 00:11:35,700
No. No lo condenan en absoluto.

342
00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:37,080
Ellos solo...

343
00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:37,220
Entonces...

344
00:11:37,220 --> 00:11:38,240
Entonces es...

345
00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:39,800
Pero Twitter no lo está haciendo mal,

346
00:11:39,940 --> 00:11:40,040
¿bien?

347
00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:44,620
Quiero decir, vi hoy que Tucker Carlson fue despedido recientemente.

348
00:11:44,680 --> 00:11:46,460
Estabas en su programa y perdió su trabajo.

349
00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:47,600
así que espero que este no sea uno viejo.

350
00:11:48,560 --> 00:11:49,880
Sí. Sí. Pero...

351
00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:50,800
Con suerte, sí.

352
00:11:50,940 --> 00:11:52,440
¿Qué, eres el ángel de la muerte?

353
00:11:52,700 --> 00:11:53,480
Sí, no, exactamente.

354
00:11:53,980 --> 00:11:56,280
No soy la Mary tifoidea de los programas de entrevistas.

355
00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:57,980
Oh...

356
00:11:57,980 --> 00:11:58,300
Pero su...

357
00:11:58,300 --> 00:12:00,220
Por alguna razón, la gente simplemente es despedida después de eso.

358
00:12:00,220 --> 00:12:04,280
Pero su diatriba de ayer o de hoy en Twitter...

359
00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:05,300
Creo que fue ayer o algo así.

360
00:12:05,620 --> 00:12:05,840
O hace un par de días.

361
00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:09,580
Hizo más que cualquier monólogo de noticias por cable.

362
00:12:09,580 --> 00:12:09,980
Sí.

363
00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:10,680
O algo así.

364
00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:11,340
¿Está bien?

365
00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:12,100
Bien,

366
00:12:12,420 --> 00:12:13,400
Twitter tiene una audiencia tremenda.

367
00:12:13,500 --> 00:12:17,380
Así que hay 250 millones de personas que pasan un promedio de media hora al día en Twitter.

368
00:12:17,420 --> 00:12:20,500
Por lo tanto, se trata de 120 a 130 millones de horas de usuario por día,

369
00:12:20,500 --> 00:12:21,300
y ha ido en aumento.

370
00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:24,580
Así que... eh...

371
00:12:24,580 --> 00:12:25,760
No hicimos nada.

372
00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:27,860
Para ser claros, no hicimos nada especial en absoluto.

373
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,100
Después me enteré de que había publicado algo en Twitter.

374
00:12:32,020 --> 00:12:35,240
Mm. Así que es solo que Twitter tiene mucha atención de la gente.

375
00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:35,740
Oh,

376
00:12:36,100 --> 00:12:36,440
entonces...

377
00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:38,760
Y tiende a ser la gente que es,

378
00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:39,700
oh...

379
00:12:39,700 --> 00:12:42,540
Que lean mucho o les interese la actualidad,

380
00:12:42,580 --> 00:12:44,840
um, y, um...

381
00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:46,160
Generalmente son bastante influyentes.

382
00:12:46,740 --> 00:12:47,220
Entonces...

383
00:12:47,220 --> 00:12:49,580
Pero la mayoría de las personas que tuitean son las mismas personas,

384
00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:49,800
¿bien?

385
00:12:49,820 --> 00:12:51,600
Quiero decir, las personas que realmente tuitean

386
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:52,800
se supone que solo deben leerlo.

387
00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:53,220
Sí.

388
00:12:53,460 --> 00:12:54,500
Siento que eso es...

389
00:12:54,500 --> 00:12:55,540
He leído esto muchas veces.

390
00:12:55,700 --> 00:12:58,880
Es un porcentaje muy pequeño de las personas en Twitter,

391
00:12:58,980 --> 00:12:59,840
y parece que...

392
00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:00,140
Sí.

393
00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:02,040
Mira, esta es la razón por la que ya no tuiteo,

394
00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:03,780
porque puedes ser el alcalde de Tweet Town ahora.

395
00:13:03,780 --> 00:13:04,700
Sí.

396
00:13:04,940 --> 00:13:05,700
Alcalde de la ciudad de Tweet.

397
00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:07,180
Estamos recibiendo un límite con eso.

398
00:13:07,180 --> 00:13:08,380
Y me alegro...

399
00:13:08,380 --> 00:13:10,900
Y me gusta que al alcalde le gusten mis chistes.

400
00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:12,860
Pero la razón por la que ya no lo hago

401
00:13:12,860 --> 00:13:16,640
es porque la mafia de chicas malas todavía está allí.

402
00:13:17,020 --> 00:13:18,800
Y eso no ha cambiado.

403
00:13:18,860 --> 00:13:21,800
Como, es demasiado fácil ser cancelado.

404
00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:25,680
Y ni siquiera sé qué les molesta.

405
00:13:25,740 --> 00:13:27,140
Están tan locos, estos niños.

406
00:13:27,580 --> 00:13:30,080
Me siento como si estuviera caminando sobre un techo con los ojos vendados.

407
00:13:30,300 --> 00:13:31,580
Podría caerme en cualquier momento.

408
00:13:31,580 --> 00:13:34,020
Eso fue lo más inocuo,

409
00:13:34,060 --> 00:13:37,080
pero es como, ya sabes, dije que George Washington fue un gran presidente.

410
00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:38,520
Bueno, ¿cómo te atreves?

411
00:13:38,780 --> 00:13:39,040
Sí.

412
00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:39,860
Si, exacto.

413
00:13:39,900 --> 00:13:40,320
Tuve algunos defectos,

414
00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:41,460
pero...

415
00:13:41,460 --> 00:13:42,500
Entonces, ¿cómo arreglas eso?

416
00:13:42,500 --> 00:13:46,260
¿Señor alcalde? ...instrumental en la creación de los Estados Unidos, así que...

417
00:13:46,260 --> 00:13:47,440
Sí. Bien,

418
00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:48,380
tú tienes que decir,

419
00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:49,680
como, ¿qué significa cancelado?

420
00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,260
Ya sabes, quiero decir, sí, la gente te ataca en Twitter,

421
00:13:52,260 --> 00:13:54,840
eso es una cosa, pero francamente, eso solo aumentará el compromiso.

422
00:13:55,460 --> 00:13:56,980
Así que simplemente lo ignoraría.

423
00:13:57,520 --> 00:13:58,960
Bueno, eso es fácil para ti,

424
00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:00,560
porque no te pueden quitar el trabajo.

425
00:14:00,560 --> 00:14:03,580
O cualquiera de tus diez trabajos principales,

426
00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:04,820
pero podrían tomar la mía,

427
00:14:04,820 --> 00:14:05,600
y lo hicieron una vez,

428
00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:06,200
por cierto.

429
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:06,820
Sí.

430
00:14:07,020 --> 00:14:07,480
Bueno, bueno, justo.

431
00:14:07,580 --> 00:14:09,400
Sabes, fui, como, literalmente cancelado.

432
00:14:09,900 --> 00:14:10,280
¿Literalmente cancelado?

433
00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:12,600
Sí, quiero decir, como, el espectáculo se cancela.

434
00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:13,980
Es como...

435
00:14:13,980 --> 00:14:15,680
De acuerdo, estabas en el Congreso,

436
00:14:16,140 --> 00:14:17,200
en el Congreso el otro día,

437
00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:18,980
hablando con Chuck Schumer sobre IA.

438
00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:20,180
estoy muy interesado en esto,

439
00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:21,780
porque llevas años en esto.

440
00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:23,940
Siempre he pensado que tenías razón en esto.

441
00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:25,700
Creo que tienes razón en casi todo.

442
00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:28,300
Quiero decir, tengamos más bebés y criémoslos en Marte.

443
00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:29,100
No entiendo eso, pero bueno.

444
00:14:29,100 --> 00:14:29,860
Bien,

445
00:14:30,900 --> 00:14:32,860
Solo creo que debemos ser cautelosos.

446
00:14:32,860 --> 00:14:35,200
sobre el declive de la civilización con...

447
00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:38,260
Y tenemos tasas de natalidad en picada en la mayoría de los lugares,

448
00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:38,520
sí.

449
00:14:38,740 --> 00:14:39,100
Bien.

450
00:14:39,220 --> 00:14:41,300
Y también la caída de los recursos.

451
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:43,300
No, no, los recursos estarán bien.

452
00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:44,940
Pero no están bien...

453
00:14:44,940 --> 00:14:45,940
No están bien ahora.

454
00:14:46,820 --> 00:14:48,580
Mira, no estoy sugiriendo complacencia.

455
00:14:49,380 --> 00:14:51,520
Queremos pasar a una economía energética sostenible

456
00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:52,580
lo más rápido posible,

457
00:14:52,820 --> 00:14:56,380
pero no estamos en peligro de colapso de los recursos.

458
00:14:56,940 --> 00:14:58,440
Pero mucha gente no tiene suficiente comida o agua.

459
00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:00,540
Agua.

460
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:02,460
Nos quedaremos sin agua.

461
00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:04,260
Se están quedando sin arena.

462
00:15:04,700 --> 00:15:04,740
Arena.

463
00:15:04,740 --> 00:15:07,640
No, la Tierra es 70% agua por área superficial.

464
00:15:08,140 --> 00:15:09,400
Pero no puedes beber eso.

465
00:15:10,420 --> 00:15:12,080
La desalinización es absurdamente barata.

466
00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:13,760
¿Por qué no lo hacemos, entonces?

467
00:15:14,380 --> 00:15:14,900
Hacemos...

468
00:15:14,900 --> 00:15:15,280
Se hace.

469
00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:16,280
Tienes mucho tiempo libre.

470
00:15:16,500 --> 00:15:16,960
Se hace.

471
00:15:17,260 --> 00:15:19,320
Hay mucha desalinización hecha.

472
00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:20,080
Está bien, pero...

473
00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:20,740
Hay mucha agua.

474
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:21,420
Esto no es un problema.

475
00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:21,980
Quiero ser claro.

476
00:15:22,100 --> 00:15:22,540
Está bien.

477
00:15:22,580 --> 00:15:24,240
Entonces, pero hablemos de IA, porque,

478
00:15:24,580 --> 00:15:25,420
como, estabas en este consejo hace 10 años cuando nadie más lo estaba.

479
00:15:25,420 --> 00:15:28,320
Y siempre pensé,

480
00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:28,980
El tiene razón.

481
00:15:29,140 --> 00:15:29,400
¿Por qué?

482
00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:30,860
Porque he visto demasiadas películas.

483
00:15:31,260 --> 00:15:32,340
Todo lo que sucede en las películas,

484
00:15:32,340 --> 00:15:33,600
eso pasa en la vida real.

485
00:15:34,300 --> 00:15:36,660
Y, ya sabes, si haces cosas

486
00:15:36,660 --> 00:15:38,080
que son mucho más inteligentes que tú,

487
00:15:38,580 --> 00:15:40,280
¿Por qué no se convertirían en tus señores?

488
00:15:40,620 --> 00:15:42,280
Entonces, ¿qué le dijiste a Chuck Schumer?

489
00:15:42,340 --> 00:15:43,340
y que estamos haciendo al respecto?

490
00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,200
Sé que quieres hacer una pausa en la IA,

491
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,240
porque solo en los últimos seis meses con ChatGPT,

492
00:15:48,540 --> 00:15:49,920
que vino de una empresa que empezaste...

493
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:55,120
Sí. Bien,

494
00:15:55,620 --> 00:15:58,640
Quiero decir, un amigo mío tiene una especie de modificación de la navaja de afeitar de Occam.

495
00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:01,620
Ya sabes, en lugar de que lo más simple sea lo más probable,

496
00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,020
como, el resultado más irónico es el más probable.

497
00:16:05,700 --> 00:16:06,040
Bien.

498
00:16:06,380 --> 00:16:06,760
Sí.

499
00:16:07,460 --> 00:16:09,880
Entonces, con respecto a la IA,

500
00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:10,900
Solo creo que deberíamos ser...

501
00:16:10,900 --> 00:16:24,500
Deberíamos tener algún tipo de supervisión regulatoria. Entonces, ya sabes, para cualquier cosa que sea un peligro para el público, ya sea una especie de avión, o algo así, tenemos una supervisión regulatoria, como un árbitro,

502
00:16:25,100 --> 00:16:27,840
esencialmente, y asegurarse de que las empresas no tomen atajos.

503
00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,520
Entonces creo que desde...

504
00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:35,560
Si uno está de acuerdo en que la IA es un riesgo potencial para el público,

505
00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:37,080
entonces debería haber algún organismo regulador que supervise lo que hacen las empresas,

506
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:49,480
para que no tomen atajos. Y creo que ese es un buen punto. Creo que ese es un buen punto. Creo que ese es un buen punto. Y si no hacemos algo...

507
00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:51,700
Diseñe un escenario para mí en los próximos dos,

508
00:16:51,700 --> 00:16:53,520
cinco, diez años, si no se hace nada,

509
00:16:53,580 --> 00:16:55,360
porque somos muy buenos para no hacer nada,

510
00:16:55,700 --> 00:16:57,700
especialmente cuando se trata de ganancias,

511
00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,380
y este es un gran motor de ganancias ahora para las empresas,

512
00:17:00,660 --> 00:17:02,700
van a querer competir entre sí.

513
00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:03,060
Quiero decir, hay gente como Ray Kurzweil,

514
00:17:03,060 --> 00:17:04,720
que no piensa que es un problema en absoluto. Y creo que ese es un buen punto. Creo que ese es un buen punto. Creo que ese es un buen punto. Quiero decir, hay gente como Ray Kurzweil,

515
00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:06,420
que no piensa que es un problema en absoluto.

516
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:12,360
En realidad, la predicción de Ray Kurzweil para la superinteligencia artificial es 2029.

517
00:17:12,540 --> 00:17:13,300
Él no está lejos.

518
00:17:13,980 --> 00:17:14,460
Bien.

519
00:17:14,700 --> 00:17:16,140
Pero él no cree que sea un problema,

520
00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,140
mientras que la gente como tú y Bill Gates,

521
00:17:18,500 --> 00:17:21,480
y Stephen Hawking piensan que es un problema.

522
00:17:22,620 --> 00:17:23,160
Sí, depende.

523
00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:25,080
Si algunas personas quieren vivir para siempre,

524
00:17:25,220 --> 00:17:26,740
o por un período de tiempo mucho más largo,

525
00:17:26,860 --> 00:17:29,640
y ven a la IA como la única manera de...

526
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:33,860
La superinteligencia digital es lo único que puede descubrir cómo hacer que vivan para siempre.

527
00:17:34,180 --> 00:17:35,720
Creo que Kurzweil está en esa categoría.

528
00:17:36,060 --> 00:17:37,640
Así que preferiría tener IA,

529
00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:39,680
inteligencia general artificial,

530
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:40,540
que no,

531
00:17:41,020 --> 00:17:42,440
porque puede calcular la longevidad.

532
00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:45,060
Entonces, ¿eres optimista?

533
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:50,480
Leí en tu artículo de Rolling Stone que dijiste que nunca puedes ser feliz a menos que estés enamorado.

534
00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:53,600
Bueno, puedes ser medio feliz,

535
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:58,180
Supongo. Quiero decir, hay dos cosas.

536
00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,020
Pienso ser más feliz,

537
00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,320
si eres feliz en el amor y amas tu trabajo,

538
00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:09,820
entonces serás, creo, completamente feliz si tienes una de esas dos cosas,

539
00:18:09,820 --> 00:18:11,060
serás medio feliz,

540
00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:12,180
ya sabes, más o menos.

541
00:18:12,380 --> 00:18:16,940
Siento que el tema en muchos de tus trabajos que conectan todas estas cosas diferentes es la conexión.

542
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:19,460
Como, quieres conectar cosas.

543
00:18:19,900 --> 00:18:21,680
Ya sabes, quieres conectarte en el

544
00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:24,400
Hyperloop, y quieres conectarlo a Marte,

545
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:26,220
e incluso Twitter.

546
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:26,800
O conectar 4.

547
00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:29,000
Quieres...

548
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:30,080
Me encanta ese juego.

549
00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:31,400
¿Qué?

550
00:18:31,900 --> 00:18:37,240
Conecta 4, ya sabes, cuando obtienes el...

551
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,300
Lo siento, esto es una comedia, ¿sabes?

552
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:42,160
Voy a lanzar algo de comedia allí.

553
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:45,640
Es difícil para ti,

554
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,340
porque cuando compraste Twitter,

555
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:50,660
estás haciendo lo que hiciste

556
00:18:50,660 --> 00:18:52,020
cuando te hiciste cargo...

557
00:18:52,020 --> 00:18:52,960
cuando empezaste con Tesla.

558
00:18:53,180 --> 00:18:54,360
Vivías en la fábrica,

559
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:54,640
¿bien?

560
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:56,760
Siento que ese es tu...

561
00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:57,680
esa es su...

562
00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:58,840
tu patrón

563
00:18:59,340 --> 00:19:00,700
Te metes en esto,

564
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:01,580
y luego tienes que vivir

565
00:19:01,580 --> 00:19:03,140
en la fábrica para que funcione.

566
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:03,620
Sí.

567
00:19:03,620 --> 00:19:04,720
Has vuelto a...

568
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:05,680
Te mudaste a Texas,

569
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,580
luego volviste a San Francisco por Twitter.

570
00:19:08,940 --> 00:19:11,760
Estuve viviendo en la biblioteca de Twitter por un tiempo,

571
00:19:12,220 --> 00:19:13,000
Sí.

572
00:19:13,460 --> 00:19:16,120
Pero creo que las cosas están razonablemente estabilizadas en este momento.

573
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,420
Estaba en la vía rápida hacia la bancarrota.

574
00:19:19,420 --> 00:19:22,280
después de la adquisición, por lo que tuve que tomar medidas drásticas

575
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:23,220
si no hubiera otra opción.

576
00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:25,020
Solo digo que es difícil para una mujer.

577
00:19:25,020 --> 00:19:25,280
Sí.

578
00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:27,600
Como cuando el tipo vive en la fábrica.

579
00:19:28,700 --> 00:19:29,220
Sí.

580
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,280
Eso podría ser un obstáculo.

581
00:19:35,300 --> 00:19:35,780
Sí.

582
00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,500
Pero en general, con, ya sabes, mi preocupación con Twitter

583
00:19:40,500 --> 00:19:41,800
era para...

584
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,060
es algo así como la plaza del pueblo digital,

585
00:19:44,180 --> 00:19:48,800
y es importante que haya tanto la realidad como la percepción

586
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:53,000
de confianza para una amplia gama de puntos de vista.

587
00:19:55,180 --> 00:19:57,320
Y había mucha censura,

588
00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:01,140
y descubrimos mucho de eso con los archivos de Twitter,

589
00:20:01,260 --> 00:20:03,380
incluyendo mucha censura impulsada por el gobierno,

590
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:05,060
cual...

591
00:20:05,060 --> 00:20:09,180
Aplausos Es...

592
00:20:09,180 --> 00:20:11,740
Quiero decir, parece que eso tiene que ser una violación constitucional,

593
00:20:11,820 --> 00:20:12,640
lo que estaba pasando allí.

594
00:20:13,380 --> 00:20:15,180
Entonces, y puedo...

595
00:20:15,180 --> 00:20:16,180
ya que soy un ávido usuario de Twitter,

596
00:20:16,180 --> 00:20:17,280
Puedo detectar eso,

597
00:20:17,500 --> 00:20:18,600
como, algo no está bien aquí.

598
00:20:18,940 --> 00:20:22,220
Y esa es realmente la razón por la que hice la adquisición.

599
00:20:22,340 --> 00:20:24,460
No fue porque pensara que esta era una manera fácil de ganar dinero.

600
00:20:24,460 --> 00:20:25,200
o algo así.

601
00:20:26,340 --> 00:20:28,220
Esto es...

602
00:20:28,220 --> 00:20:29,020
ser alcalde de la ciudad de Twitter,

603
00:20:29,120 --> 00:20:30,060
Tweet ciudad, o lo que sea,

604
00:20:30,860 --> 00:20:34,160
Definitivamente es como si hubiera muchas flechas apuntándote, como,

605
00:20:34,500 --> 00:20:35,080
volando hacia ti.

606
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:35,760
Sí, claro.

607
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:37,960
Pero pareces manejar eso bien.

608
00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:39,080
Espero que lo hagas.

609
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:41,320
porque, mira,

610
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,520
Quiero decir, los genios van a ser un poco extravagantes a veces,

611
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,040
pero tu corazón siempre está en el lugar correcto.

612
00:20:47,060 --> 00:20:48,800
Estabas tratando de arreglar este mundo,

613
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,520
y, mira, podría hablar contigo para siempre.

614
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:52,300
No podemos hoy.

615
00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:53,440
Me encantaría drogarme contigo.

616
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:54,800
Conozco un gran lugar para hacerlo.

617
00:20:55,540 --> 00:20:57,560
Pero no puedo decirte cuánto te aprecio.

618
00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:59,980
Sé que tienes muchas opciones y lugares a los que puedes ir.

619
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:02,500
Gracias, Elon Musk, damas y caballeros.

620
00:21:02,940 --> 00:21:04,500
Muy bien, te veré pronto, Elon.

621
00:21:18,820 --> 00:21:20,160
Gracias.

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